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topics for Beginners- a chew
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zidd
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topics for Beginners- a chew - 15th February 2013, 01:25 PM

Dear freinds,

for a beginner , it is not all that dificult to find tecnical definitions for objective terms of shayri. for e.g definition of ghazal or nazm or radeef etc.

It is also not very dificult to find material and definitions about various fixed processes like valid qafiyas, process of meters etc.

it is also not very difficult to find general histories. the difficulty is how the corrections of history is applied in a process. this material can never be found in one place.

nevertheless out of experience ,i can say that a newcomer requires much more perspective . availability of only objective material tend to bore the learner ,specially when he is least equipped to understand it. many questions arise in their minds ,the answers for which are not found pointedly in one or few sources.

pursuant to the above given premise , i wish to form a body of questions , the answers for which a newcomer may want to know immediately , to sustain his interest and to give him a perspective of his new activity i,e. 'doing' poetry.

the traditions need to be brought to the new comer , anyways a poet cannot be untraditional ,if he does not know what tradition is ( generally all newcomers want to be rebels , wanting to set new traditions)

i will cull whatever material i can find and write articles on each topic one by one. each topic may contain 3-15 paragraphs depending on the material.
these are not scholarly articles. its an attempt to provide directions to find proper answers of questions of newcomers. some articles may be statements of mere facts . some may contain analysis in accordance to rules of prosody.
some may even be judgemental , but everyone is free to disagree.

anyone is free to add a question, the question may be added to an existing question if it is a paraphrase ,if answers to that question is being given by an existing question
or a mere odd additional paragraph is required to answer that question , within the frame of an existing question.

if anyone has any objection to this exercise , he may say so and if found valid, this exercise will be stopped.


a new thread will be created for each topic and anyone is free to add to the main article.a question may be added even after the discussion on topics start.

now you may add to the questions . i shall begun from 1 week of march, unless stopped by valid objection.

regards

i request naresh mehraji to translate the topics to hindi in devnagri script and mujeeb sahab in urdu in urdu script. i also implore everyone to request them and force them to do so.

Last edited by zidd; 15th February 2013 at 02:03 PM..
   
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zidd
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15th February 2013, 01:27 PM

1] why is the beloved mostly in masculine gender in a ghazal
Or
What is a ghazal.

2]rivalry between ghazals and nazms – which genre wins ?

3] thought versus emotion – what has been said about it ?

4] sehal e mumtana – the art of the impossible


5] mushairas of yore – atrocious manifestation of rivalry between legendary poets.

6]ghazals – a female writers perspective .

7] delhi gharana versus luchnow gharana

8] aik faisanabul jantalmain – usage of English in ghazals

9] requirement of necessity of rigid meters – then .
Or
Ghazal kahi aur suni kyu jaati hai, likhi aur padi kyu nahi jati? : a case of dated snobbishness?

10] are rigid meters in ghazals necessary now ? – a two sided arguement.

12] a very brief and pointed history of urdu .- special focus on lineage and hiers
Or
Where was hindi 100 to 150 years from now?

13]A note on mixed metaphors.

14] verbal devices – ‘jugat’ and wordplay.

15] wanton inuendos and deviant behaviour in ghazals of iconic poets.

16]scope of poetic licence in ghazals

17]milestones in a learners path .- the changes a learner may undergo.

18] selection of meter for a ghazal.

19]extreme sentimentality – words stronger than the emotion.

20] what is a sufiyana sher exactly ?

21] has everything been said in a ghazal ?
Or
Can new themes be generated in a ghazal now?
   
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15th February 2013, 02:02 PM

No objection from my side...pls go ahead.....

Infact I must say great job....

Mujeeb sahab Naresh ji ..aap dono ki madad ki zarurat padegi is thread per..
Pls is thread ko regularly follow karte rahiye...

Main tou offcourse aungi hi...

Seekhnay.........




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15th February 2013, 06:51 PM

Well done Zidd sahib,

my salutations to you for comprehending the vast subject into Index form and details thereafter (1st March ka intezar rahega humein,,)

But my suggestion is that your index takes us to literary side of Ghazal , please
do write about elementary side of Ghazal , that too with illustrations . And also try to use simple language which can be of immense help for learners like me.

Encourage everybody to interact and participate and one should not hesistate to ask small questions , as this will help them build sound foundation in poetry.

All participants should not use complicated Urdu (pls forgive me) words , and if
these words are necessary it should accompany meanings too..

My good wishes with you Zidd sahib and congratulations for taking such a difficult task of teaching bigininers on your shoulders.

REGds

Sanjay sehgal

Last edited by Hamdam; 15th February 2013 at 06:56 PM..
   
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zidd
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15th February 2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
No objection from my side...pls go ahead.....

Infact I must say great job....

Mujeeb sahab Naresh ji ..aap dono ki madad ki zarurat padegi is thread per..
Pls is thread ko regularly follow karte rahiye...

Main tou offcourse aungi hi...

Seekhnay.........
thanks zainyji...

aur nareshji aur mujeeb sahab...sun liya na apne ? high kamaan ka farmaan aa gaya hai...ab jald se aap dono hazir ho jaiye
   
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15th February 2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamdam View Post
Well done Zidd sahib,

my salutations to you for comprehending the vast subject into Index form and details thereafter (1st March ka intezar rahega humein,,)

But my suggestion is that your index takes us to literary side of Ghazal , please
do write about elementary side of Ghazal , that too with illustrations . And also try to use simple language which can be of immense help for learners like me.

Encourage everybody to interact and participate and one should not hesistate to ask small questions , as this will help them build sound foundation in poetry.

All participants should not use complicated Urdu (pls forgive me) words , and if
these words are necessary it should accompany meanings too..

My good wishes with you Zidd sahib and congratulations for taking such a difficult task of teaching bigininers on your shoulders.

REGds

Sanjay sehgal
what i have said is mostly all elementary sir.
but you are free to frame your questions.

1 issue i have with you sahab...
i am no teacher and not teaching.
i am simply shaping some info in accesible and relevant form.
you may say i am a mere postman.
   
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15th February 2013, 09:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
thanks zainyji...

aur nareshji aur mujeeb sahab...sun liya na apne ? high kamaan ka farmaan aa gaya hai...ab jald se aap dono hazir ho jaiye

high kamaan........hahahahaha..........LOLZZZZ..... .....




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16th February 2013, 05:28 PM

very nice begining for beginers.....this will be a very impnrtant thread for the persons, who take special intrest in learning....i am one of those....



एक हाथ में दिल उनके एक हाथ में खंजर था
चेहरे पे दोस्त का मुखौटा अजीब सा मंजर था

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naresh_mehra110
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naresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comnaresh_mehra110 is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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18th February 2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
thanks zainyji...

aur nareshji aur mujeeb sahab...sun liya na apne ? high kamaan ka farmaan aa gaya hai...ab jald se aap dono hazir ho jaiye
Aap Hai Naa Zidd Bhai

Mukammal Shayer

Aapka Seekhana Hii Bantaa Hai




YuuN Besabab Aansoo Aate NahiN
Lag Zaroor Koii Baat Dil Ko Rahii Hai ...

Fareb Kaa ChaDhtaa Bazaar Dekh
Insaaf Se Bastii Khaalii Ho Rahii Hai ...


---Naresh Mehra----
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18th February 2013, 01:23 PM

Ufffff....................... ye first week of March jaldi kyon nahi aa raha hai.....

Bhai saab decision change kijiye... ab start kar hi dijiye....


Shaad...
   
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19th February 2013, 06:54 PM

Thora Sabr karo shad Bhai, Kahte hai Sabr ka phal meeta hotaa hai................



khone Pane ki daur mein yun uljha hai har bashar ,
Isee kashmeqash mein kat raha Zindagee ka safar.
   
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sameer'shaad'
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28th February 2013, 02:33 PM

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Thora Sabr karo shad Bhai, Kahte hai Sabr ka phal meeta hotaa hai................
.................................................. .....


Shaad...
   
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zainy
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zainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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28th February 2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
Dear freinds,

for a beginner , it is not all that dificult to find tecnical definitions for objective terms of shayri. for e.g definition of ghazal or nazm or radeef etc.

It is also not very dificult to find material and definitions about various fixed processes like valid qafiyas, process of meters etc.

it is also not very difficult to find general histories. the difficulty is how the corrections of history is applied in a process. this material can never be found in one place.

nevertheless out of experience ,i can say that a newcomer requires much more perspective . availability of only objective material tend to bore the learner ,specially when he is least equipped to understand it. many questions arise in their minds ,the answers for which are not found pointedly in one or few sources.

pursuant to the above given premise , i wish to form a body of questions , the answers for which a newcomer may want to know immediately , to sustain his interest and to give him a perspective of his new activity i,e. 'doing' poetry.

the traditions need to be brought to the new comer , anyways a poet cannot be untraditional ,if he does not know what tradition is ( generally all newcomers want to be rebels , wanting to set new traditions)

i will cull whatever material i can find and write articles on each topic one by one. each topic may contain 3-15 paragraphs depending on the material.
these are not scholarly articles. its an attempt to provide directions to find proper answers of questions of newcomers. some articles may be statements of mere facts . some may contain analysis in accordance to rules of prosody.
some may even be judgemental , but everyone is free to disagree.

anyone is free to add a question, the question may be added to an existing question if it is a paraphrase ,if answers to that question is being given by an existing question
or a mere odd additional paragraph is required to answer that question , within the frame of an existing question.

if anyone has any objection to this exercise , he may say so and if found valid, this exercise will be stopped.


a new thread will be created for each topic and anyone is free to add to the main article.a question may be added even after the discussion on topics start.

now you may add to the questions . i shall begun from 1 week of march, unless stopped by valid objection.

regards

i request naresh mehraji to translate the topics to hindi in devnagri script and mujeeb sahab in urdu in urdu script. i also implore everyone to request them and force them to do so.

Waiting for the big day tomorrow............




Zainy


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Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

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28th February 2013, 02:54 PM

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waiting for the big day tomorrow............
................................................


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28th February 2013, 06:12 PM

aree bhai ..aaap sabhi ne itna build up bana diya hai ki ab mujhe lag raha hai jaise 1 march se imtihaan shuru ho rahe hai

jo kaam maze ke liye shuru kiya tha ab vo kaam ho gaya (crying)

khair koi baat nahi...koshish karenge ki aap sabko kaha pasand aaye.
   
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sameer'shaad'
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28th February 2013, 06:28 PM

Aisii baat qatai nahi hai Zidd saahab, aap par koi kaam nahi laada gaya hai bas thodi si inaayat aapse chahte hain.... wo to hum bas zara sa khush ho rahe they ye soch kar ke wo din jald aane waala hai jab aap hum ssab ko thoda bahot sikhaana shuru karenge...

Aap ko jjaisaa sahi lage, aaap us hisaab se waqt nikaaliye.... ye humne aap par hi chhoDa hai...

Hum logon ko baahot kuch seekhne milegaaa bahot jald, isi ummeed ke saath filhaal vidaa leta hoon... jald mulaaqat hogii.....insha Allaah...

tc,

Shaad...


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zainy
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28th February 2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:
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aree bhai ..aaap sabhi ne itna build up bana diya hai ki ab mujhe lag raha hai jaise 1 march se imtihaan shuru ho rahe hai

jo kaam maze ke liye shuru kiya tha ab vo kaam ho gaya (crying)

khair koi baat nahi...koshish karenge ki aap sabko kaha pasand aaye.

Pasand na aane ka tou sawaal hi paida nahi hota............

Kaam samajh ker na karein,....bas maze leker hi padhaiye, hum bhi maze se sabaq yaad karte jayenge.....

Bas ek guzarish zaroor hai aapse....classes regularly lijiye.....




Zainy


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Thumbs up 28th February 2013, 09:44 PM

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aree bhai ..aaap sabhi ne itna build up bana diya hai ki ab mujhe lag raha hai jaise 1 march se imtihaan shuru ho rahe hai

jo kaam maze ke liye shuru kiya tha ab vo kaam ho gaya (crying)

khair koi baat nahi...koshish karenge ki aap sabko kaha pasand aaye.
Aadaab wa Tasleemaat Zidd bhaee....

Sabsay pahlay Hindi film ki police ki terha sabsay aakhir may entry maarnay kay liyay maazrakhwaah hoon... aapka mayn bayhad mashkoor hoon ki aapnay itnay khuloos kay saath is thread ka iftetaah kiya... aapka yay thread haasil e section haye janaab! Many many thanks for just your effort a d many many more for your altruism (strictly plain words )!

So whatever you do next is a gift for all of us for the present as well as for he future bhaee!

So relax and Thank You a biiig one for everything!!

Duagoh
Ahmad


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28th February 2013, 09:53 PM

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Originally Posted by sameer'shaad' View Post
Aisii baat qatai nahi hai Zidd saahab, aap par koi kaam nahi laada gaya hai bas thodi si inaayat aapse chahte hain.... wo to hum bas zara sa khush ho rahe they ye soch kar ke wo din jald aane waala hai jab aap hum ssab ko thoda bahot sikhaana shuru karenge...

Aap ko jjaisaa sahi lage, aaap us hisaab se waqt nikaaliye.... ye humne aap par hi chhoDa hai...

Hum logon ko baahot kuch seekhne milegaaa bahot jald, isi ummeed ke saath filhaal vidaa leta hoon... jald mulaaqat hogii.....insha Allaah...

tc,

Shaad...
aapki baat sunkar kuch hausla aaya...thanks bhai....
mai wakai kahta hu i had lost my nerves
   
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28th February 2013, 09:56 PM

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Originally Posted by zainy View Post
Pasand na aane ka tou sawaal hi paida nahi hota............

Kaam samajh ker na karein,....bas maze leker hi padhaiye, hum bhi maze se sabaq yaad karte jayenge.....

Bas ek guzarish zaroor hai aapse....classes regularly lijiye.....
sammh nahi aa raha hai ki aap sahi kah rahi hain ya tanaa kas rahi hai
khair koi baat nahi..
aap to jyada samjhdaar hamesha hi thin...meri baat bhi samjh hi gayin hongi..

thanks for the comfort......but kindly doct construct this as any teacher thing....
again i repeat , its will only be mostly a rehash .
   
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28th February 2013, 09:58 PM

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Aadaab wa Tasleemaat Zidd bhaee....

Sabsay pahlay Hindi film ki police ki terha sabsay aakhir may entry maarnay kay liyay maazrakhwaah hoon... aapka mayn bayhad mashkoor hoon ki aapnay itnay khuloos kay saath is thread ka iftetaah kiya... aapka yay thread haasil e section haye janaab! Many many thanks for just your effort a d many many more for your altruism (strictly plain words )!

So whatever you do next is a gift for all of us for the present as well as for he future bhaee!

So relax and Thank You a biiig one for everything!!

Duagoh
Ahmad
thanks bro for the strength...
ab mai kal se shuru karta hu.......
   
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28th February 2013, 10:14 PM

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thanks bro for the strength...
ab mai kal se shuru karta hu.......
No bhaee Thanks To You! You desrve it! And always no constraints... and we mhst thank you for strengthening this section's meaning & relevance and no aap kal say 'kaam' nahe shuru kar rahay... .. bas khushboo pahla rahay hayn talem e sukhan kii

Duagoh
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1st March 2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
sammh nahi aa raha hai ki aap sahi kah rahi hain ya tanaa kas rahi hai
khair koi baat nahi..
aap to jyada samjhdaar hamesha hi thin...meri baat bhi samjh hi gayin hongi..

thanks for the comfort......but kindly doct construct this as any teacher thing....
again i repeat , its will only be mostly a rehash .

taanaa.........

I respect you from the bottom of my heart Zidd sahab.....aur sach me bohat kuch seekhna hai hameiN aapse...

chaliye jaisa aapko theek lage ...it will not be a teaching thing....it will only be a kinda discussion...

ok?...




Zainy


PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

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1st March 2013, 06:18 PM

Zidd saahab

is thread ke liye maiN aapka shukriya pehle nahiiN adaa kar sakaa uske liye muaaf kar dijiyega

This will no doubt be extremely helpful to a lot of people and kudos to you for coming up with it.

I'm sure your valuable time and efforts are well appreciated by those you are in need of such information, that also includes yours truly


.........................................

is tarhe teri yaad meiN har shaam dhaley hai
goyaa koyi nagin si kalejey pe chaley hai

maikash
...............................
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The art of the impossible
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The art of the impossible - 1st March 2013, 07:32 PM

Sahl e mumtana.

A listerner of a sher from a ghazal responds to the sher from his perspective of life and experiences.This broadly includes his education, his IQ , his literary exposure ,his station in life and most important his vocabulary, which collectively ,for the present limited purpose may be called the persons literary character.

A persons understanding of a particular sher is governed by his literary character.
The mind indulges in unfathomable permutations and combinations of the various parts of the persons literary character to analyse a sher and to absorb it.
When digested the persons brain may give him a clear meaning or a vague meaning or even just a semblance of some meaning.
This results in different people appreciating the given sher in different ways. Also this is the reason which creates likes and dislikes for various shayars by people.

How the brain processes a particular sher depends on the quality or traits of the sher.
Due to the peculiarity and the literary character of the person, the evaluation of the sher differs for different people.

Saying all this as a background ,

There is one notable exception. There is a category of ashaar ,which irrespective of the literary character of the person, is more or less evaluated as beautiful by most persons.

Such ashaar comprise the sehal e mumtana and also sehal o mumtana( both forms)

As the words indicate , it means

Sehal – simple

Mumtana – impossible (...forbidden, prohibited etc other meanings)

Lets say –Impossibly simple.

It essentially means that that a sher has such a quality that it is : (generally)

1] simple in idea

2] employs very simple vocabulary (maybe colloquial )

3] generally contains some figure of speech like a common metaphor or some simple apparent wordplay.(but not necessarily)

In essence its such a sher that any person will identify with it. A layman will instinctly like it .
A shayar or people skilled in the literary arts will ponder ,and in the first instance will not give any credit to the shayar for the sher, but will consequently definitely understand the complexity of its simple make.

A minor shayar may think ‘ whats in the sher , I can do this very easily’ , but woe betide such a bard , when he sits down to pen such a sher , to his utter dismay ,it will be impossible to attain, resulting in great greif.

To illustrate the above point, i quote Sarojni naidu , who famously said ‘ Mr Gandhi doesn’t know how much it costs the congress to keep him poor .’

The make of such a sher is always simple.
To say further ,such ashaar make themselves. A common trait is general common vocabulary and colloquial usage.

Common idioms will be employed. Another essential trait is the oneness of both the misras.
It shouls be noted here that the operative word is oneness and not mere rabt

It will seem as if there is only one sentence in place of two misras.
The two misras will weld in such a way that both will be incomplete without each other literally and not only in context of mazmoon.

One e.g exercising unidentifiable wordplay

Kahte hai jeete hai ummeed pah log
Hum ko jeene ki bhi ummed nahi...Galib

Hali in yaadgaare galib termed this sher as an example of sehal e mumtana.

Ofcourse ,meters play a pivotal role in making a sher a sehal e mumtana.
The same thought /theme /words employed in a different meter will not make it a sehal e mumtana. As the meter will cause some changes in the sequencing of words and may rob the sher of the sehal e mumtana quality.
Hali ,classified the above sher as one of the finest example of sehal e mumtana it that meter.

Sehal e mumtana achieves itself when the words do not appear to be arranged in the meter. It will have to confirm to meter but seem as if everyone would speak that sentence , in the context the its meaning.

Suppose someone asks why is your wife so glum, he may ask:

Aapne phirse kuch kahaa unko? (2122 1212 22)

If an another suitable line as ulaa or a saani was added to this line and that line had the similar quality of this line, it would constitute sehal e mumtana.

Some critics ,notably S .R. Faruqi ,though agreeing at the beauty and heart touching quality of such ashaar, still opine that too much premium should not be put on such ashaar, though he agrees at the ingenuity of such ashaar.

it is pointed out now , and not as an after thought , that such critics are heavily influenced by western literary writings , though nothing wrong in it per se.
The problem only arises because sehal e mumtana is such an easy enterprise in english poetry that there is simply no literary worth to it.
It is a laymans writing in english poetry because the english meters , are a cake walk in terms of urdu meters , if at all they may be termed as meter.
English so called meters totally rely on stress , consequently making all its syllables flexible.

In fact ,Francess pritchett , a very eminent urdu scholar and friend and collaborator of S .R Faruqi herself says ' English meters are an afterthought and a mere fancy icing on the cake, whereas the urdu meters are the cake itself'

Others say that such ashaar are so rare ,that the rareness of such ashaar makes , the quest for it a very desirable trait.

The writer feels that the make of urdu meters ,ipso facto discourages the making of sehal e mumtana.

Lafz baratna is not only giving effect and more punch to a preidentified mazmoon ,but essentially is also to put the words in the meter.
This makes the verse laboured. Unnessary words called bharti have to be necessarily used.

No poet has been able to escape from this , without taking any names how much ever reputed he is or was.

Even in the verses of great masters ,words can be very easily removed without making the mazmoon suffer to the tiniest bit.

Sehal e mumtana ashaar cannot generally accommodate any bharti words .

Unnessary bharti words will steal the commonness from the sentence and will make it a normal shayari verse .

Lastly , i must say that bollywood lyric writers ,which are given very little credit, actually deserve manyfold more credit than they receive.
They are the prime practitioners of sehal e mumtana.
It is mainly due to the fact that they do not generally use rigid urdu meters , but use mir’s meter or its close cousin the mutadaarik meter.
That is probably the reason everyone loves hindi film songs so much, because it touches the heart.
And it touches the heart because its a sehal e mumtana.

Last edited by zidd; 1st March 2013 at 07:58 PM..
   
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1st March 2013, 11:19 PM

wow!!...quite interesting..

one question

How to improve our literary character?...




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2nd March 2013, 12:10 AM

Aadaab To All.........!



Yaar meri samjh meiN nahi aa raha hai ke shayari English meiN karni
hai yaa Urdu meiN... Agar Urdu meiN yaa Hindi meiN karni hai toH
Zidd Sahaab hindi yaa Urdu meiN hi sikhaiye taki mere jaise anpadh
log bhi kuch samjh sake aur sikh sake.....

Janab isliye kah raha huN ke aapka itna bada bada likha sab waste hai
mere jaisoN ke liye...

ToH ummid karta huN janab aap sach meiN sikhana chahte haiN aur
mere jaisoN ke liye aap Urdu yaa Hindi meiN hi sikhayeNge...
ToH pahle chapter ko Hindi yaa Urdu meiN bhi convert kar ke post kar dijiye.. MaiN kuch smajh sakuNga...


Shaad O aabaad rahiye...
Khuda Hafez.....





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2nd March 2013, 12:42 PM

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wow!!...quite interesting..

one question

How to improve our literary character?...
hmmm.............................................. .................................................. ........
   
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2nd March 2013, 12:46 PM

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Aadaab To All.........!



Yaar meri samjh meiN nahi aa raha hai ke shayari English meiN karni
hai yaa Urdu meiN... Agar Urdu meiN yaa Hindi meiN karni hai toH
Zidd Sahaab hindi yaa Urdu meiN hi sikhaiye taki mere jaise anpadh
log bhi kuch samjh sake aur sikh sake.....

Janab isliye kah raha huN ke aapka itna bada bada likha sab waste hai
mere jaisoN ke liye...

ToH ummid karta huN janab aap sach meiN sikhana chahte haiN aur
mere jaisoN ke liye aap Urdu yaa Hindi meiN hi sikhayeNge...
ToH pahle chapter ko Hindi yaa Urdu meiN bhi convert kar ke post kar dijiye.. MaiN kuch smajh sakuNga...


Shaad O aabaad rahiye...
Khuda Hafez.....





bhai, maine nareshji ko request kiya tha , ki vo hindi anuwaad karen...magar
shayad unhone ye post dekha nahi.....

rahi baat shayri ki to vo aap urdu me karte hai to karte rahiye..

ye shayri karne ka tarika thode hi hai...ye to bus ek info article hai.....

ab bagut se terms ke mujhe hindi ya urdu translation nahi malum...so english me likh diya.
kyuki accuracy ki zarurat hai., jab mai hindi aur urdu ke technical terms ko translate nahi kar sakta to agar vernacular me likhunga to inaacurate ho jayega...

shayri me magar terms ki zarurat nahi padti...vo aam zaban me bhi hoti hai....so zubaandaani ko shayri se confuse nahi kiya jaaye....sab urdudaan aur hindidaan shayar nahi ho sakte.....aur shayar ko koi zarurat nahi zabaandaan hone ki...

ye beDaa shayar ka nahi ki vo zabaan sikhaaye ya vo us zabaan ka ustaad ho...aur uspar ye bheDaa bhi nahi ki vo koi zabaan ka propaganda karen. koi shkas ghar me marathi bol sakta hai magar shayri urdu me kar sakta hai.

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2nd March 2013, 12:56 PM

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bhai, maine nareshji ko request kiya tha , ki vo hindi anuwaad karen...magar
shayad unhone ye post dekha nahi.....

rahi baat shayri ki to vo aap urdu me karte hai to karte rahiye..

ye shayri karne ka tarika thode hi hai...ye to bus ek info article hai.....

ab bagut se terms ke mujhe hindi ya urdu translation nahi malum...so english me likh diya.
kyuki accuracy ki zarurat hai., jab mai hindi aur urdu ke technical terms ko translate nahi kar sakta to agar vernacular me likhunga to inaacurate ho jayega...

shayri me magar terms ki zarurat nahi padti...vo aam zaban me bhi hoti hai....so zubaandaani ko shayri se confuse nahi kiya jaaye....sab urdudaan aur hindidaan shayar nahi ho sakte.....aur shayar ko koi zarurat nahi zabaandaan hone ki...

ye beDaa shayar ka nahi ki vo zabaan sikhaaye ya vo us zabaan ka ustaad ho...aur uspar ye bheDaa bhi nahi ki vo koi zabaan ka propaganda karen. koi shkas ghar me marathi bol sakta hai magar shayri urdu me kar sakta hai.
Cool down ji cool down.....itna ghussa na hoyiye.....

Hum naresh ji aur mujeeb sahab ko ek baar phir etella kar dete hain ke aapke articles ka translation kar deiN.....




Zainy


PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

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2nd March 2013, 01:43 PM

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Originally Posted by kwahish View Post
Aadaab To All.........!



Yaar meri samjh meiN nahi aa raha hai ke shayari English meiN karni
hai yaa Urdu meiN... Agar Urdu meiN yaa Hindi meiN karni hai toH
Zidd Sahaab hindi yaa Urdu meiN hi sikhaiye taki mere jaise anpadh
log bhi kuch samjh sake aur sikh sake.....

Janab isliye kah raha huN ke aapka itna bada bada likha sab waste hai
mere jaisoN ke liye...

ToH ummid karta huN janab aap sach meiN sikhana chahte haiN aur
mere jaisoN ke liye aap Urdu yaa Hindi meiN hi sikhayeNge...
ToH pahle chapter ko Hindi yaa Urdu meiN bhi convert kar ke post kar dijiye.. MaiN kuch smajh sakuNga...


Shaad O aabaad rahiye...
Khuda Hafez.....






quite agree with sameer bhai..... yaar zidd bhai, zara saral shuddh hindhi bhasha me samjhaaane ka kasht kareN mahaashay....

hum jaison ko behad aasani ho jaaegii.... hope u dont mind, aur Mehra saabko manaa lenge ummeed karta hoon...

Shukriyaa...

Shaad...


Shaad...
   
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2nd March 2013, 04:14 PM

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Originally Posted by zidd View Post
Sahl e mumtana.

A listerner of a sher from a ghazal responds to the sher from his perspective of life and experiences.This broadly includes his education, his IQ , his literary exposure ,his station in life and most important his vocabulary, which collectively ,for the present limited purpose may be called the persons literary character.

A persons understanding of a particular sher is governed by his literary character.
The mind indulges in unfathomable permutations and combinations of the various parts of the persons literary character to analyse a sher and to absorb it.
When digested the persons brain may give him a clear meaning or a vague meaning or even just a semblance of some meaning.
This results in different people appreciating the given sher in different ways. Also this is the reason which creates likes and dislikes for various shayars by people.

How the brain processes a particular sher depends on the quality or traits of the sher.
Due to the peculiarity and the literary character of the person, the evaluation of the sher differs for different people.

Saying all this as a background ,

There is one notable exception. There is a category of ashaar ,which irrespective of the literary character of the person, is more or less evaluated as beautiful by most persons.

Such ashaar comprise the sehal e mumtana and also sehal o mumtana( both forms)

As the words indicate , it means

Sehal – simple

Mumtana – impossible (...forbidden, prohibited etc other meanings)

Lets say –Impossibly simple.

It essentially means that that a sher has such a quality that it is : (generally)

1] simple in idea

2] employs very simple vocabulary (maybe colloquial )

3] generally contains some figure of speech like a common metaphor or some simple apparent wordplay.(but not necessarily)

In essence its such a sher that any person will identify with it. A layman will instinctly like it .
A shayar or people skilled in the literary arts will ponder ,and in the first instance will not give any credit to the shayar for the sher, but will consequently definitely understand the complexity of its simple make.

A minor shayar may think ‘ whats in the sher , I can do this very easily’ , but woe betide such a bard , when he sits down to pen such a sher , to his utter dismay ,it will be impossible to attain, resulting in great greif.

To illustrate the above point, i quote Sarojni naidu , who famously said ‘ Mr Gandhi doesn’t know how much it costs the congress to keep him poor .’

The make of such a sher is always simple.
To say further ,such ashaar make themselves. A common trait is general common vocabulary and colloquial usage.

Common idioms will be employed. Another essential trait is the oneness of both the misras.
It shouls be noted here that the operative word is oneness and not mere rabt

It will seem as if there is only one sentence in place of two misras.
The two misras will weld in such a way that both will be incomplete without each other literally and not only in context of mazmoon.

One e.g exercising unidentifiable wordplay

Kahte hai jeete hai ummeed pah log
Hum ko jeene ki bhi ummed nahi...Galib

Hali in yaadgaare galib termed this sher as an example of sehal e mumtana.

Ofcourse ,meters play a pivotal role in making a sher a sehal e mumtana.
The same thought /theme /words employed in a different meter will not make it a sehal e mumtana. As the meter will cause some changes in the sequencing of words and may rob the sher of the sehal e mumtana quality.
Hali ,classified the above sher as one of the finest example of sehal e mumtana it that meter.

Sehal e mumtana achieves itself when the words do not appear to be arranged in the meter. It will have to confirm to meter but seem as if everyone would speak that sentence , in the context the its meaning.

Suppose someone asks why is your wife so glum, he may ask:

Aapne phirse kuch kahaa unko? (2122 1212 22)

If an another suitable line as ulaa or a saani was added to this line and that line had the similar quality of this line, it would constitute sehal e mumtana.

Some critics ,notably S .R. Faruqi ,though agreeing at the beauty and heart touching quality of such ashaar, still opine that too much premium should not be put on such ashaar, though he agrees at the ingenuity of such ashaar.

it is pointed out now , and not as an after thought , that such critics are heavily influenced by western literary writings , though nothing wrong in it per se.
The problem only arises because sehal e mumtana is such an easy enterprise in english poetry that there is simply no literary worth to it.
It is a laymans writing in english poetry because the english meters , are a cake walk in terms of urdu meters , if at all they may be termed as meter.
English so called meters totally rely on stress , consequently making all its syllables flexible.

In fact ,Francess pritchett , a very eminent urdu scholar and friend and collaborator of S .R Faruqi herself says ' English meters are an afterthought and a mere fancy icing on the cake, whereas the urdu meters are the cake itself'

Others say that such ashaar are so rare ,that the rareness of such ashaar makes , the quest for it a very desirable trait.

The writer feels that the make of urdu meters ,ipso facto discourages the making of sehal e mumtana.

Lafz baratna is not only giving effect and more punch to a preidentified mazmoon ,but essentially is also to put the words in the meter.
This makes the verse laboured. Unnessary words called bharti have to be necessarily used.

No poet has been able to escape from this , without taking any names how much ever reputed he is or was.

Even in the verses of great masters ,words can be very easily removed without making the mazmoon suffer to the tiniest bit.

Sehal e mumtana ashaar cannot generally accommodate any bharti words .

Unnessary bharti words will steal the commonness from the sentence and will make it a normal shayari verse .

Lastly , i must say that bollywood lyric writers ,which are given very little credit, actually deserve manyfold more credit than they receive.
They are the prime practitioners of sehal e mumtana.
It is mainly due to the fact that they do not generally use rigid urdu meters , but use mir’s meter or its close cousin the mutadaarik meter.
That is probably the reason everyone loves hindi film songs so much, because it touches the heart.
And it touches the heart because its a sehal e mumtana.
Thanx zidd bhai....bahut important information aapne provide karayee...
Aapne zikr kiya bollywood songs ka kee vo sehal e mumtana hote hain isliye acche lagte hain, par vo to meter mein nahin hote hain to kya meter mein hona zaruri nah hai.......



एक हाथ में दिल उनके एक हाथ में खंजर था
चेहरे पे दोस्त का मुखौटा अजीब सा मंजर था

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2nd March 2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
Sahl e mumtana.

A listerner of a sher from a ghazal responds to the sher from his perspective of life and experiences.This broadly includes his education, his IQ , his literary exposure ,his station in life and most important his vocabulary, which collectively ,for the present limited purpose may be called the persons literary character.

A persons understanding of a particular sher is governed by his literary character.
The mind indulges in unfathomable permutations and combinations of the various parts of the persons literary character to analyse a sher and to absorb it.
When digested the persons brain may give him a clear meaning or a vague meaning or even just a semblance of some meaning.
This results in different people appreciating the given sher in different ways. Also this is the reason which creates likes and dislikes for various shayars by people.

How the brain processes a particular sher depends on the quality or traits of the sher.
Due to the peculiarity and the literary character of the person, the evaluation of the sher differs for different people.

Saying all this as a background ,

There is one notable exception. There is a category of ashaar ,which irrespective of the literary character of the person, is more or less evaluated as beautiful by most persons.

Such ashaar comprise the sehal e mumtana and also sehal o mumtana( both forms)

As the words indicate , it means

Sehal – simple

Mumtana – impossible (...forbidden, prohibited etc other meanings)

Lets say –Impossibly simple.

It essentially means that that a sher has such a quality that it is : (generally)

1] simple in idea

2] employs very simple vocabulary (maybe colloquial )

3] generally contains some figure of speech like a common metaphor or some simple apparent wordplay.(but not necessarily)

In essence its such a sher that any person will identify with it. A layman will instinctly like it .
A shayar or people skilled in the literary arts will ponder ,and in the first instance will not give any credit to the shayar for the sher, but will consequently definitely understand the complexity of its simple make.

A minor shayar may think ‘ whats in the sher , I can do this very easily’ , but woe betide such a bard , when he sits down to pen such a sher , to his utter dismay ,it will be impossible to attain, resulting in great greif.

To illustrate the above point, i quote Sarojni naidu , who famously said ‘ Mr Gandhi doesn’t know how much it costs the congress to keep him poor .’

The make of such a sher is always simple.
To say further ,such ashaar make themselves. A common trait is general common vocabulary and colloquial usage.

Common idioms will be employed. Another essential trait is the oneness of both the misras.
It shouls be noted here that the operative word is oneness and not mere rabt

It will seem as if there is only one sentence in place of two misras.
The two misras will weld in such a way that both will be incomplete without each other literally and not only in context of mazmoon.

One e.g exercising unidentifiable wordplay

Kahte hai jeete hai ummeed pah log
Hum ko jeene ki bhi ummed nahi...Galib

Hali in yaadgaare galib termed this sher as an example of sehal e mumtana.

Ofcourse ,meters play a pivotal role in making a sher a sehal e mumtana.
The same thought /theme /words employed in a different meter will not make it a sehal e mumtana. As the meter will cause some changes in the sequencing of words and may rob the sher of the sehal e mumtana quality.
Hali ,classified the above sher as one of the finest example of sehal e mumtana it that meter.

Sehal e mumtana achieves itself when the words do not appear to be arranged in the meter. It will have to confirm to meter but seem as if everyone would speak that sentence , in the context the its meaning.

Suppose someone asks why is your wife so glum, he may ask:

Aapne phirse kuch kahaa unko? (2122 1212 22)

If an another suitable line as ulaa or a saani was added to this line and that line had the similar quality of this line, it would constitute sehal e mumtana.

Some critics ,notably S .R. Faruqi ,though agreeing at the beauty and heart touching quality of such ashaar, still opine that too much premium should not be put on such ashaar, though he agrees at the ingenuity of such ashaar.

it is pointed out now , and not as an after thought , that such critics are heavily influenced by western literary writings , though nothing wrong in it per se.
The problem only arises because sehal e mumtana is such an easy enterprise in english poetry that there is simply no literary worth to it.
It is a laymans writing in english poetry because the english meters , are a cake walk in terms of urdu meters , if at all they may be termed as meter.
English so called meters totally rely on stress , consequently making all its syllables flexible.

In fact ,Francess pritchett , a very eminent urdu scholar and friend and collaborator of S .R Faruqi herself says ' English meters are an afterthought and a mere fancy icing on the cake, whereas the urdu meters are the cake itself'

Others say that such ashaar are so rare ,that the rareness of such ashaar makes , the quest for it a very desirable trait.

The writer feels that the make of urdu meters ,ipso facto discourages the making of sehal e mumtana.

Lafz baratna is not only giving effect and more punch to a preidentified mazmoon ,but essentially is also to put the words in the meter.
This makes the verse laboured. Unnessary words called bharti have to be necessarily used.

No poet has been able to escape from this , without taking any names how much ever reputed he is or was.

Even in the verses of great masters ,words can be very easily removed without making the mazmoon suffer to the tiniest bit.

Sehal e mumtana ashaar cannot generally accommodate any bharti words .
nnessary bharti words will steal the commonness from the sentence and will make it a nomal shayari ver
Lastly , i must say that bollywood lyric writers ,which are given very little credit, actually deserve manyfold more credit than they receive.
They are the prime practitioners of sehal e mumtana.

It is mainly due to the fact that they do not generally use rigid urdu meters , btut use mir’s meter or its close cousin the mutadaarik meter.
That is probably the reason everyone loves hindi film songs so much, because it touches the heart.
And it touches the heart because its a sehal e mumtana.
Two words.... Thank You!

Thank you for bringing to us such an eloquently elaborating piece of knowledge of poetry. Bayhad mufeed article haye issay mujhay yaqeen haye kaee logaon ko bayhad faayda hoga both in terms of writing usefel and meaningful works but also appreciating real gems
of works of others! A truly educating article janaab can't thank you enough Sir!


Duagoh

Ahmad
   
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4th March 2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aru View Post
Thanx zidd bhai....bahut important information aapne provide karayee...
Aapne zikr kiya bollywood songs ka kee vo sehal e mumtana hote hain isliye acche lagte hain, par vo to meter mein nahin hote hain to kya meter mein hona zaruri nah hai.......
aruji.....bollywood ke sab gaane mostly meter me hote hai...maine kaha hai article me ye baat ,ki mostly mir's meter me hai ya closely related(but different origins) mutadarik meter me hai......haa cutting may not be as per the meter , yu samjh lijiye ki khud hi practical way me vo zihaafat den rahe hai....

par the operative word hai simplicity of idea and vocabulary.

ab agar sdc par koi kahe ' mere dost mausam dekhkar rang badalte hai'
to sab kahenge ki kya ghisa pita misra hai...matlab uski koi aukaat nahi,,,

magar aisa sa hi misra ...agar koi gaane me aa jaaye to koi ye baat nahi kahega...matlab ek aam aadmi ko bahut lutf dega aisa misra...kyuki vo roz roz aise misre nahi sunta....

ab ye to ek shayar hi ko tay karna hai ki use apni baat masses ke saamne rakhni hai ya sirf chand ustaadi ki waah waahi chaiye.

kyuki dono ki khech opposite direction me hai.
ek rassakashi ho jaise...ke kiske liye shayri ki jaaye..

aur shayar ko sab experiment karke ye jawaab mil jata hai...to vo us tarah ki shayri karta hai. ( presumimg he is able to change his style if the needs change.)

ab style kaise change ho aur kaun kar sakta hai aur kaun nahi, ye ek alag discussion hai so phir kabhi ,mauka aane par.

hope this answers youir question.
   
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4th March 2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Hyderabadi View Post
Two words.... Thank You!

Thank you for bringing to us such an eloquently elaborating piece of knowledge of poetry. Bayhad mufeed article haye issay mujhay yaqeen haye kaee logaon ko bayhad faayda hoga both in terms of writing usefel and meaningful works but also appreciating real gems
of works of others! A truly educating article janaab can't thank you enough Sir!
thanks bhai.. for appreciating the effort.
agee se maagr as suggested by my freinds, i will write in a mixture of english ,hindi and urdu. some nuances will be lost ,but if people understand things a bit differnt than intended is better that members do not understand at all.

onve again tha nks for the encouragement.

regards
   
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4th March 2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
thanks bhai.. for appreciating the effort.
agee se maagr as suggested by my freinds, i will write in a mixture of english ,hindi and urdu. some nuances will be lost ,but if people understand things a bit differnt than intended is better that members do not understand at all.

onve again tha nks for the encouragement.

regards
Aadaab Zidd bhaee, bhaee your effort needs much more than appreciation !!

Aapkay is article par mujhaay apnay bachpan ka ayk experience yaad aa raha haye which perfectly exemplifies what you said.

All of us may remember the song:

Ghar say nikaltay he,
Kuch door chaltay he,
Rastay mayn haye uska ghar!
Kal subha daykha tou,
Baal banaati wo,
Khidkee mayn aayee nazar!


Movie: Papa kehte hain

Poet/ Lyricist: Javed Akhtar

At the time of the movie I was a little kid and the applause I heard and saw on tv from prominent people didn't make sense to me.

I remember Shah Rukh Khan in an intervie I think on Mtv at that time said he said to Jugal Hansraj that he's jelous that he's got this song and not him and I was thinking what's so special about this song and why other people are so up in applause about this simple song!

This is sahl mumtana exemplified isn't it??


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4th March 2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Hyderabadi View Post
Aadaab Zidd bhaee, bhaee your effort needs much more than appreciation !!

Aapkay is article par mujhaay apnay bachpan ka ayk experience yaad aa raha haye which perfectly exemplifies what you said.

All of us may remember the song:

Ghar say nikaltay he,
Kuch door chaltay he,
Rastay mayn haye uska ghar!
Kal subha daykha tou,
Baal banaati wo,
Khidkee mayn aayee nazar!


Movie: Papa kehte hain

Poet/ Lyricist: Javed Akhtar

At the time of the movie I was a little kid and the applause I heard and saw on tv from prominent people didn't make sense to me.

I remember Shah Rukh Khan in an intervie I think on Mtv at that time said he said to Jugal Hansraj that he's jelous that he's got this song and not him and I was thinking what's so special about this song and why other people are so up in applause about this simple song!

This is sahl mumtana exemplified isn't it??
yes bhaii....bulls eye...you got the essence of the article.
mera kaam safal hua..agar ek dost ne bhi mujhe samjh liya....to mera bhi bulls eye
   
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5th March 2013, 12:36 PM

Agli topic ka intezaar hai.......................




Zainy


PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

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5th March 2013, 04:54 PM

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yes bhaii....bulls eye...you got the essence of the article.
mera kaam safal hua..agar ek dost ne bhi mujhe samjh liya....to mera bhi bulls eye
Zidd bhai you're being modest here... nowhere to hide from the credit which we owe to you!! Thanks for such beautiful and articulate piece of knowledge!!!


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6]ghazals – a female writers perspective .
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6]ghazals – a female writers perspective . - 14th March 2013, 12:16 AM

‘A man who makes love to a woman ‘ is a ghazil penning the ghazal. In classical Arabian ghazals , the men folk talked and the women listened. Love is the central theme of all ghazals.

The theme persisted inspite of the arab physicians classifying love as a “horrifying form of mental derangement capable of destroying the very essence of man”

A women writing a ghazal was unheard and women were always subject to the male gaze as an object of desire.

The classical definition of the ghazal is a cliché now. Just to avoid the charge of omission I say that a ghazal in the traditional Arabian sense is defined as ‘ to talk to the beloved’

It is to be noted that the very definition renders the idea of a female ghazal writer repugnant, as the very idea of a female writer talking to the beloved must be inconceivable to the feudal minds of the medieval people.

It would simply be an oxymoron to the imagery of the Arabians to even contemplate a women’s gaze , where the object of female fancy would be a male . It would require great courage and a major rebellious streak in the men folk even to contemplate of such a scenario, being permitted within the etiquettes of the times .

The above scenario being unthinkable, the fright of the grave charge of sapphism, if a women talked to a women’ would be enough to frighten any aspiring female bard.

The irony is that the common romantic theme of the raqeeb , a competing suitor , or more appropriately ,translated by the word coined by me
i.e a lover-in-law is an ever recurring element in the traditional mould of ghazal. Though this empowers a women , as it apparently seems , this enticing theme just remained in poetry and was never the norm.

A similar theme is the saaqi or the bar girl. She has been given various attributes. The cup bearer (saaqi) is not a simple entity, having the task of waiting on tables.
She is entrusted with secrets.
She is the companion.
She is the comforter.
She should have style.
she is not a common whore in a tavern.

Har raaz ayaan ho jaaye agar to raaz kaha phir raaz raha
Sab ek agar ho maikhaane me kya saaqi ka andaaz raha.


She is most qualified to have lovers and raqeebs , If at all any entity is found in classical ghazal who may have been allowed to write a ghazal it would have been this omnipresent ubiquitous saaqi.
She is the most obvious contender for the beloved, as she is not in purdah. She is the single entity most qualified to write a ghazal. she is the style statement in those times.
Most possibly the concept of raqeeb arose from saaqi.

The conquest of Persia by the arabs in the eleventh century lead to the arab influence on Persian literature, most notably the ghazal genre.

The major change of this cross pollination of literary cultures resulted in the change of the concept of ‘mashuq’.

Due to the peculiarity of the Persian language and grammar , where verb endings do not change the gender , the gender of ‘mashuq’ became indefinite.
the quirk of a language changed a genre !!

So now the beloved could be a female or even an effeminate male. Sometimes the concept got so debauched that it could also mean a child ,before he had grown visible features of manhood i.e facial hair ,cracked voice etc. But whatever the concept ,the male gaze remained constant, and very rarely ,if at all ,any female writers were given space. The concept of female gaze was taboo in this cultural landscape.

As the society liberalised, some female ghazal writers came into some prominence in the world.
Simin behbehani (B.1927,iran) visibly made men the ‘beloved’ and introduced the female gaze. But the urdu ghazal in spite of some very popular shayars like parveen shakir could not break the mould,
Though it should be noted that parveen shakir consciously attempted it .for e.g

This sher, as in the entire ghazal of parveen shakir , is gender neutral.

The female signage comes out in a very subtle and nuanced way, though no gender specific verb or pronoun is employed for the subject.

mujh pe chhaa jaaye vo barasaat kii Khushbuu kii tarah
ang ang apanaa usii rut meN mahakataa dekhuuN


the only way the female hand is detected is in the idiom.
the classical female motifs of beauty are used here ‘ang ang me’ .
though the female idiom is employed very subtly ,and will be lost on most casual listeners , it would have definitely popped the ears of the literary class.

As contrasted to the above ,the female poet is forthright here.
The grammar shows and denotes the female writer.

The poet clearly celebrates the male beloved here , in fact in one particular sher (marked in bold) the poet is quite jubilant about it and also uses a subterfuge to articulate a war cry of exuberance,

Sach is equated to a respectable kahna
Jhooth is equated to a casual bool’na


KaMaal-E-Zabt Ko Khud Bhi To AazMaungi,
Main Apne Haath Se Uski Dulhan Sajaungi,

Supard Karke Use Chandni Ke Haathon Mein,
Main Apne Ghar Ke Andheron Mein Laut Aaungi,

Badan Ke Qarb Ko Wo Bhi SaMajh Na Payega
Main Dil Mein Ro'ungi, Aankhon Mein Muskuraungi,

Wo Kya Gaya Ke Rifaaqat Ke Sare Lutf Gaye,
Main Kisse Rooth Sakungi Kise Manaungi,

Wo Jhuth Bolega Aur Lajawab Kar Dega,
Main Sach Kahungi Phir Bhi Haar Jaungi,


Jawaaz Dhund Raha Tha Nayi Mohabbaton Ka,
Wo Keh Raha Tha Ke Main Usko Bhool Jaungi...
..parveen shakir

In this above ghazal parveenji comes out openly ,but such instances are rather rare.


It is very much probable that those female writers who try to break the mould were not given space in formal literary circles.

The informal circles like the addas of Kolkata and various ubiquitous coffee houses are the preserve of men folk in general. Women folk never had informal literary circles to themselves ,so that thoughts , themes and styles peculiar to womenfolk could germinate. hence the female literary figure too had to assimilate into the classical , if they wanted to participate in the literary endeavours, they had to become male.

Then arrived the internet , the great benefactor and liberator of people, specially womenfolk.
Forums for shayri mushroomed.
Women who could not get out for literary pursuits ,seized at the opportunity with a vengeance.
No one had any problem. the elders of the house may sneer at womenfolk on the internet, but still let them indulge in the internet activity ,as it did not entail the womenfolk going out for the literary activity.

This gave such an exposure to womenfolk about the technicalities , that they started writing ghazals.

The age old tradition of teacher –pupil relation broke down. Such womenfolk , bereft of the knowledge of the history of the ghazal , and fortunately unaware of the strict adab of dos and donts in the ghazal – created the female gaze in ghazals ,where a male was the beloved .i.e the mashuq.

The force of creation of history is always lost on the present.
The internet is in infancy , and it is reasonably established by scholars that the age will last another 500 years.(in whatever form of hardware and software).

200 years down the line when researchers will study the female perspective in ghazals ,in the internet age, it is quite possible that shayras like Zainy* and some others ,who are the harbingers of the female gaze objectifying the male as the ‘beloved’ in ghazals will be remembered in posterity as pioneers, and their present male peers will be forgotten as pedestrian shayars.

Due to socio-religious strictures womenfolk kept themselves out of literary circles .Urdu ghazal became a male bastion.

Urdu ghazals during the muhgal period became a refined art as it borrowed heavily from the established literary traditions of Persian literature , which itself was influenced by the arab prosody and rhetoric.

As to perso-arab literary tradition,it can be safely said that, in most parts the prosody was provided by the arabs and the rhetoric by the Persians.

It was a complete literary milieu in itself. This rich amalgam collided with the khaDi boli of Dehli and Braj of delhi outskirts like Mathura , Hindon ,Meerut etc , giving rise to a language called rekhta and its sub genre rekhti.

This rekhta borrowed the Indian language structure i.e the syntax , with the local verbs and pronouns , and the vocabulary from Persia, specially nouns.

As the pronouns were local and the Indian pronouns and verb endings are gender specific , whereas the Persian were gender neutral, a big problem arose .
How should the beloved be addressed- It must then have become a big and confusing question. Slowly it became customery to address the beloved as ‘male’, mainly due to

1] The neutral/male gender verb ending affords new theme generation apart from wine and women shayri. It permits incorporation of mystical and other themes.

2]Direct attribution of exaggerated/exotic/erotic traits to the beloved would be considered crude and crass in that medieval landscape. The vague addressal ,or a male addressal would remove this dither.

These were the literary reasons ,and it should again be noted that the female perspective was not even a accorded a thought.there were simply no female shayars

These literary reasons compounded with the fact that ‘birha’ a form of 'song of longing' for the beloved in braj ,which was traditionally sung by the hoi polloi - the natives ,was always in feminine gender.

While singing ‘birha’ the male singers adopted the addressal of the female. he assumed the persona of a female and became the zanana .

This form was adopted by rekhti( as distinct from rekhta) , which further introduced birha’ to dramatisation and also wearing of female clothes by males while singing ‘birha’ .

this irked the sensibilities of the ruling elite mughal class . this became the social reason for the beloved in ghazals (as it was the leading literary genre) , to be masculine, to be in direct juxtaposition to ‘birha’

Mughal india went along its literary business and with the custom of addressing the female as male .

And The world patiently waited for the female ghazal bards to emerge. not that the world knew that such a time would come.

No one ever knew That what had never happened ,will happen in the last ten years of this century.

Any would be female writer didnt get any encouragement with the advent of the British.
In fact any remainder of ambiguity ,if at all present was stamped out.

The duo of Maulana Hali and Azaad derided the ghazal genre as limiting the thoughts artificially. They opined that the contemporary themes were retrograde in its content of wine and women, and hence devoid of meaningful thought and unsuitable for the new age..

They were mighty influenced by western poetry and impressed by its distinct inclusiveness of thoughts and rhetoric.
The duo tried to shape the idiom of shayri and opined that the ghazal was actually feminine(as to effeminate ) in nature ,and only masculine in addressal hence only outwardly masculine.hence it was unsuitable for any meaningful discourse .

They accorded urdu shayri the role of social reform and a tool of spreading morality , and hence to cleanse the literature rejected the ghazal and favoured the nazm.

They proposed complete neutrality of gender ,they demanded that the beloved , if any, by skillful application of the language be rendered ambiguous.

They recommended usage of only third person pronouns for the beloved and wanted the female to be in plural , thus obfuscating the gender to some extent.

The idea was to purge the ghazal from any sexual imagery ,
as it was considered decadent .

the rich perso-arab-indian traditions ,in their thought were retrogade and an obstacle to literary reform.

Hali further wanted the ghazal to be changed and have the structure of the two independent misras in a sher to become a single continuous narrative of two lines, akin to the English sonnet , No wonder he was laughed out by his peers.

Previously the ghazal was a celebration of the feminine ,with masculine terminology.
Now ghazal was sought to be stripped of all emotion and sentimentality and of all the feministic themes (mazmoons) .

For some time the genre of ghazal lost all personal traits , ghazal lost not only gender but also the classical idiom and its rich rhetoric.
It was sought to be made to fit the social agenda, it promoted the masculine ,in line with their philosophy of making it a part of social reform.

Thus a 'supposed to be good' Samaritan deed polarised the Indian literary circles. The ghazal along with the nazm was made to carry a message rather than poetic thought.

The legacy of the Duo of Haali and Azaad was ably carried forward by Iqbal.
It the rebellious times of Indian freedom struggle ,such non conformist thoughts gained some recognition.
Haali and company strove to cleanse the ghazal of all feminism and thus robustly promoted the masculinity , and tried to assimilate it to the social agenda.

Some people protested .
the dissenters were few in number , but a vocal group.
Specially the lucknow groups .
they retaliated by saying that the new idiom was a one to one paraphrase of western thoughts , that the supposed new amendments’ to urdu shayri was only outwardly urdu but inwardly western and English, much to the glee of British .
the British promptly knighted Iqbal and he became ‘sir Iqbal’.

The lucknow litterateurs were derided and ridiculed and in many nasty ways. They lucknow shayars were attributed effeminate traits , the term lucknow gharana was by an inflexion of voice ,was made into a pejorative ‘ghar – aanaa’.

Such was the zeal that even the common citizenry of lucknow was not spared.
The cucumber sellers(kakDiwalas) who employed poetic devices like kakadi lelo,laila ki ungli lelo, majnu ki pasli lelo while describing the cucumber as lean were derided .( the thinner the cucumber ,more the premium on it)

Ahle luchnow retaliated in a major way. They kept quiet .
they simply carried on as if no social upheaval had happened.
In a sense it had actually not happened ,because such a literary upheaval was sought to be orchestrated top down and was not started by the masses.

This total ignoring by the lucknow shayars to the proposed new idiom of shayri , proved fatal to the sought so called literary upheaval.

the luchnow shayars carried on with their feminist shayri as if nothing had happened.
Eventually the heart rules ,
the masses could not comprehend the poetic idiom of Hali and company and by lineage Iqbal.
Ghazal returned to its self, though it must be conceded ,not in its original pristine condition .
Feministic themes returned . the heart craves the natures equilibrium of male and female-and Its manifestation the ghazal , along with its implied meaning returned .

Lucknow won because the shayars didn’t disturb the male –female equilibrium. Delhi failed not because it didn’t have the right goal, after all- social purpose is a lofty goal in itself,
but because it wanted a bullock to ride the desert in place of a camel.

Ghazal was simply ,so entrenched in amour and erotism by such a long custom, that it simply didn’t have the idiom of a social lingua franca.

After Hali and Iqbal ,none could carry the lineage and associated baggage of social reform. Notably one poet , Khadim kashmiri ,said to have received some instruction from Iqbal, tried to carry the legacy.

No introduction is needed for Iqbal ,but as a sampler i list some verses of khadim kashmiri.

Usne saarangi khariidi shauk se
Maine bhi zidd karke tabla le liya

Qaum par apne kiya sabkuch nisaar
Deke sar Gandhi ne charkha le liya

Bekasi ne di mujhe akhir panaah
Besahara tha akhir sahara le liya...kashmiri


There were no takers for this type of shayri, specially after independence.

Post independence the atmosphere was bubbly.
hope and optimism abounded.
Hindu muslim relations stabilised after the cathartic carnage.

Mood changed.
There was social upliftment talk everywhere, so no one wanted upliftment in their ghazal.

Feminism triumped.
Delhi lost for ever.
Even today lucknow is associated with adab and shayri.
Delhi finds no mention .even the sins of the forefathers of delhi gharana have got tired and stopped stalking.

Nothing remains of delhi as a literary place while lucknow flourishes.

Our dear ghazal ,with all the feminism , is restored .
non feminist shayars are tolerated, some respected , while classical shayars are loved.
Matters of heart are not amenable to logic.
lofty social goals are best left to social reformers ,who have a better perspective , and who are rooted people.
But the problem still remains – where' s the female shayar?

What is she supposed to do?

How is she supposed to address? Should she declare her sex in a ghazal?
Ofcourse thers no objective answer.

Ye naazuk se mere andar ki ladki
Ajab tewar ajab jazbe ki ladki

Haveli ke makin to chahte the
Ke ghar hi me rahe ye ghar ki ladki........ishrat afreen (Pakistan)


To Whom is this poet talkin to?

Certainly not to a male beloved.

Nor is it a sapphist enterprise ,that a girl is speaking to a girl.

Here the poet talks to herself.

it is powerful device.
It hits at the core of the definition of a ghazal. It creates a anamoly in the idea of the ghazal itself.

Employment of this device renders the female poet immune to all charges of female gaze and the consequent objectification of male.

Simin behebanai took a diametric opposite view.
She consciously objectified men by her female gaze.
She made the male the beloved and an object of desire and longing.
She did it visibly in employing gender specific grammar.
Parveen shakir did the same ,though employing gender unspecific grammar.

What is not lost not here and should not be lost is that- in the Persian language it is very easy to be gender unspecific, due to the typicality of its verbs ,specially the verb endings. But simin did the opposite.

Urdu has gender specific verbs ,and to make it gender neutral requires dexterity of language, and a conscious effort. parveen could not breach the post, because of fear of society or modesty, alas will never be known.

In the instant case of ishrat afreen ghazal, who is the subject.?

There does not seem to be any, neither the lover or the beloved.

The subject is the poem itself. Ofcourse this does not apply to male shayars.they would simply be ridiculed ,and termed pretenders in the guise of social commentators.

A female poet has a better latitude in making the poem the subject. as there are simply no precedents !!

Zehr hi maange ,amrit ras ko muh na lagaaye
Baghi , ziddi, vahshi aur haTile honth

Aisi banjar baate, aise kadve bol
Aise komal, sundar ,surkh rasile honth

Itna bolegi to kya sochenge log?
Rasm yaha ki hai ,laDki sii le honth.....ishrat afreen(Pakistan)


Here the poet arouses the erotic by various descriptions of the lips, though the style is deprecating , the erotism is not lost.

I do not think a better case can be found , where the female poet sits inside the mould to denote to the world her feminine place ,but refuses to close the mould ,so that she can be moulded.

Each sher conforms to male prejudice, and the radeef qafiya of each sher shatters the resolve of the male ,into a moribund bundle.

As if the poet is enticing and fattening the male ego ,lulling and sedating the male, before the guillotine falls.

A female shayar can be dangerously intelligent, like the legend ’killing me softly with a song’.

It is nobodys case that the female shayar has no established customs. She herself is the pioneer.

A female shayar is in such a cusp of time that Whatever she may do, will contribute to form the backbone of the future custom.

It is obvious that the female shayar need no longer hide behind the neutral or male gender.
Internet forums have liberated her.
A female shayar may compose verses with complete anonymity if she so wishes. She may reinforce the female gaze and objectify the male, in sweet revenge and in sisterhood to all the previous female would be poets ,who could never be.

She may choose no subject , or choose male as the subject,in contrast to all the previous male shayars who have chosen the subject to be a female .

But whatever the choice, it is certain that they will go down in history ,as ameer khusro has.

---------

* = this is not a frivolous ,irresponsible statement. this very site is sittting on the most prime of internet real estate as to its feild and scope. just think , with such an obvious name as 'shayri.com' where will the future researcher start his research from? 200-400 years down the line when a researcher starts his research on female shayars and the female gaze, most probably they will start from this site. all of us will be forgotten ,she will live in posterity.

----------------

For the sake of brevity ,some chronology is compromised, but it does not effect the substance.

regards

to be continued...

Last edited by Dhaval; 14th March 2013 at 05:24 PM..
   
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