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7th August 2014, 11:36 PM
kis kis azaab se kaho guzra naheeN hooN maiN
ab tak teree panaah meiN aaya naheeN hooN maiN
- zarraa
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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Some Mirrors Lie...
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8th August 2014, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kis kis azaab se kaho guzra naheeN hooN maiN
ab tak teree panaah meiN aaya naheeN hooN maiN
- zarraa
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wahh! wahh!.... kamal hi kamal hai Zarraa saheb..
bohat besh-keemati aur aala darjay ka shair kaha hai aap ne..
DherooN daad-o-mubarakbaad...
*hSn* : parStaar
tumhara shoq dekha to ghazal hum ne nazar kar di!
kabhi fursat meiN sun lena, bohat ashaar baqi haiN... ("Asad")
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8th August 2014, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
Aadeil bhai, bahaut achchha sawaal kiya aap ne aur shayari par guftagoo ke liye ek bahaut interesting mudda bhi uthaaya hai. is thread ki spirit bhi ye hi hai ki hum guftagoo ke zariye mashq-e-sukhan karein.
........
And also .... Cheers
Zarraa
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waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
Zarraasaab.. kya khubsurti se aapne meri iis uljhan ko suljha diya ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
aapkii baat bilkul sahi hai... jab abr chhate haiN to mahaul rindoN ke liye bilkul mufeed hota hai ![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif) .....
aapka behad shukr guzaar hooN itne tafsiil se javaab dene ke liye.... ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) And also for the links..
duaaoN ke saath.. CHEERS ![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता
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8th August 2014, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
wwwwaaahhhh!!! chaaron aashaar bahaut khoob aur sab mein lafz "azaab" ka asardaar istemaal dekhne ko milta hai. aur 2nd sher ke to bas kya kehne ... kya khoob narrative hai aur kya raw intensity !! wah wah wah Aadeil bhai !!!
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teh-e-dil shukriya adaa karna chahunga, Zarraaji... ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता
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8th August 2014, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kis kis azaab se kaho guzra naheeN hooN maiN
ab tak teree panaah meiN aaya naheeN hooN maiN
- zarraa
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waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!
Zarraasaab,
kya khubsurat matla bandha hai.....
bahot khub...... dilse daad....
ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता
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Aapki dost
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8th August 2014, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kis kis azaab se kaho guzra naheeN hooN maiN
ab tak teree panaah meiN aaya naheeN hooN maiN
- zarraa
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bohat khoob. .......................
Zainy
PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...
Nm
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~$uper M0der@tor~
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8th August 2014, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
Aadeil bhai, bahaut achchha sawaal kiya aap ne aur shayari par guftagoo ke liye ek bahaut interesting mudda bhi uthaaya hai. is thread ki spirit bhi ye hi hai ki hum guftagoo ke zariye mashq-e-sukhan karein.
main apni limited samajh ke daayre ke andar, 2-3 points arz karna chaahoonga.. would be eager to have your opinion on it as well.
1. sab se pehle to main ne ye socha ki pehle confirm kar liya jaaye ki Faiz sahab ne misre meiN kaun se lafz ka istemaal kiya hai - sharaab, saraab ya koyee teesra. waise main ne to har jagah "sharaab" hi parha tha, lekin doubly confirm karna chaahta tha. to kyunki ye ek bahaut hi mashhoor aur popular ghazal ka matla hai, jise kayee jaane maane gayakon ne apni aawaz di hai, to main ne un ki recordings search kari ke is lafz mutalliq kuchh confirmation mil sake. phir neeche waale links mile jo mehdi hassan, jagajit singh aur ghulam ali ki gaayee huwee ye ghazal ke hain. jaisa ki aap in mein sunenge, lafz "sharaab" ka istemaal sunaayee deta hai.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y70JN...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKs7e...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4hHh...e_gdata_player
2. to agar ye maan liya jaaye ki lafz "sharaab" hi hai, to sawaal uthta hai ki "aaye kuchh abr kuchh sharaab aaye" ka interpetation kya hai? faiz sahab is misre mein kya farma rahe hain? aur jaisa ki aap ne farmaaya "sharaab aur abr" ka kya connection hai ?
3. mere limited interpretation aur imagination mein, misra e oola ke 2 scenarios samajh mein aa rahe hain
(a) wish a few clouds were to appear and wish some liquor were to appear
(b) a few clouds have appeared, so how I wish some liquor also appears
abr aur sharaab ka ye rishta hai, mere hisaab se, ki baadal ki chhaon mein, khaas taur se din ke waqt, sharaab peene ka mahaul sa ban jaata hai, shayad is liye ki lagta hai ki din mein hi raat ho gayi - shayad kuchh is liye ki mausam suhana ho jaata hai aur mind relaxed jis se bhi sharaab peene ka dil karne lagta hai. waise isee thought se somewhat related topic par Ghalib ka ek shaandaar aur mashhoor sher hai
ghalib chhuti sharaab par ab bhi kabhi kabhi
peeta hooN roz-e-abr-o-shab-e-maahtaab meiN
-ghalib
(waise sharaab peene ke liye bas koyee mauka ya bahaana mil jaaye to kaafi hai, din aur raat ka jhamela kaisa ![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif) )
aur misra e saani mein, "azaab" is liye, ki yoon to sharaab peena hi gunaah hai aur us par din mein peena to double gunaah ![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif) ya phir ye ki jab itne achchhe maahaul mein sharaab peene ka lutf utha liya ho, then who cares what happens next - jo bhi bure se bura ho hamaare saath ho jaane do ![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif) (waise ek practical interpretation ye bhi ho sakta hai ki agar din mein sharaab piyoge to hangover ka azaab to zaroor jhelna parhega ![EEK!](images/smilies/eek.gif) )
waise ye saara mera apni limited knowledge, information aur imagination par based interpretation hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ho sakta hai koyee aur bhi interptation nikalta ho.
waise, main "saraab" ke saath koyee scenario ya interpretation ab tak naheen bana paaya hoon. sach poochhiye to main ne "sharaab" ke scenario par hi zyada focus kiya kyunki mujhe laga ki faiz sahab ne "sharaab" ke mutalliq baat kahi hai, to humein unhi ki soch par aage sochna chaahiye. saath hi, "saraab" aur "azaab" mein koyee connection naheen bana paaya jis se oola aur saani saath aa jaayein. but if you have any opinion on it, then most welcome to voice it, would be really glad to listen
and many thanks Aadeil bhai for raising this point - it's a very interesting discussion topic
And also .... Cheers
Zarraa
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wonderfully expressed, each and every aspect of that misra....
My heart full of Reps added..... ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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~$uper M0der@tor~
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8th August 2014, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil
kamar se baandh ke khinchenge wo tere kafas* ko
kise uthaanee hai azaab is sard murde baar* ki
(kafas = dead body, baar = burden)
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Aadeil bhai kyaa kahne aapke is sher ke, kamaal ki manzarkashii ko pesh kiyaa hai aapne........ har ek lafz cheekh cheekh kar apna dard bayaaN kar rahaa hai... bahot hi aalaa......
ek lafz mujhe rah rah kar thoda sa pareshhan kar rahaa hai aur zaahir hai merii kam ilmii ki hi wajah se...... agar aap thodii si merii madad farmaaenge to behad khushi hogii....
Lafz hai "kafas" jo aapne is sher me istemaal kiya hai....
mujhe jaisaa lagta hai aap lafz Qafas ka zikr kar rahe hain... aur jitnaa main jaantaa hoon it resembles to a cage or prison.... kuch sher aapko sanad ke taur pe pesh karta hoon...
na pahu.nchegii kabhii kyaa gosh-e-gul tak
qafas se u.D ke fariyaad-e-anaa dil
hasrat mohani saab..
qafas hai daam hai bha.Dkii hu.ii hai aatish-e-gul bhii
isii maahaul me.n andaaza-e-parvaaz hotaa hai
- Qabil ajmeri saab
Mujhe filhaal koi refrence nahi milaa hai jahaan qafas as a dead body/ body ke liye istemaal hua ho... par logically agar sochaa jaae to it can be used as a body, jism ki qaid, something like that.....
but i am looking for ustaad reference , if can help me finding that i shall be thankful......
Ummeed karta hoon meri baaton se kisii bhi tarah ki naagawaari na hogii.... aur seekhne sikhaane ka ye silsilaa yunhi kaayam rahega....
shukriyaa
Shaad.....
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Some Mirrors Lie...
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8th August 2014, 01:01 PM
humaiN baad-e-bahaari ka aadi bana kar
baad-e-hawaadis se milaate kyuN ho?
taa-umer saath nibhane ka ah.Ed tha!
roz naye azaab se milaatay kyuN ho?
baad-e-bahaarii : spring wind
baad-e-hawaadis : wind of troubles
ah.Ed = promise
*hSn* : parStaar
tumhara shoq dekha to ghazal hum ne nazar kar di!
kabhi fursat meiN sun lena, bohat ashaar baqi haiN... ("Asad")
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8th August 2014, 02:52 PM
ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता
Last edited by aadeil; 8th August 2014 at 03:07 PM..
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8th August 2014, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan
humaiN baad-e-bahaari ka aadi bana kar
baad-e-hawaadis se milaate kyuN ho?
taa-umer saath nibhane ka ah.Ed tha!
roz naye azaab se milaatay kyuN ho?
baad-e-bahaarii : spring wind
baad-e-hawaadis : wind of troubles
ah.Ed = promise
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bahot khub, Hassanbhai...................
ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता
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~“ REBELLIOUS IN LOVE “~
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8th August 2014, 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kis kis azaab se kaho guzra naheeN hooN maiN
ab tak teree panaah meiN aaya naheeN hooN maiN
- zarraa
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Waaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Zarraa sahab....umda...kya kehne....dheron daad.
Mohabbat ke ye silsile na the
Jab tak tum hum mile na the
*pari*
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8th August 2014, 03:08 PM
agree with your comments bhai..... as you mentioned it will be a synonym of cage or prison.
I was not able to correlate word qafas in your sher... bcoz it was resembling there more like a dead body but not like a prison.. i am not sure if i am thinking in wrong way... but there must be a feel of imprisonment .
well don't take it other way , it was just for the clarification. and also its not necessary now to reply back on this.....
if you feel you want to add more then you are most welcome bhai.... otherwise pls ignore.
Thanks....
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Some Mirrors Lie...
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8th August 2014, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by N@zneen
Wah! bahot khoob.....kya rumanii andaaz hai....dheron daad ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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shukriyaaH.. dil ki gehraaiyooN se! ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
*hSn* : parStaar
tumhara shoq dekha to ghazal hum ne nazar kar di!
kabhi fursat meiN sun lena, bohat ashaar baqi haiN... ("Asad")
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Some Mirrors Lie...
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8th August 2014, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil
bahot khub, Hassanbhai...................
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shukriyaaH aap ka............. sachhe dil se... ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
*hSn* : parStaar
tumhara shoq dekha to ghazal hum ne nazar kar di!
kabhi fursat meiN sun lena, bohat ashaar baqi haiN... ("Asad")
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8th August 2014, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
agree with your comments bhai..... as you mentioned it will be a synonym of cage or prison.
I was not able to correlate word qafas in your sher... bcoz it was resembling there more like a dead body but not like a prison.. i am not sure if i am thinking in wrong way... but there must be a feel of imprisonment .
well don't take it other way , it was just for the clarification. and also its not necessary now to reply back on this.....
if you feel you want to add more then you are most welcome bhai.... otherwise pls ignore.
Thanks....
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shoaibbhai,
dead body ek khali pinjre kii tarah hi hota hai... ![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
aur wohi correlation hai...
agar pura sher dekhenge to... yahaaN pe azaab, murde ko smashaan tak le jaane wale ko nahiN uthaani hai....
kamar se baandh ke khinchenge wo tere kafas ko
kise uthaanee hai azaab is sard murde baar ki
iis liye wo murde ko qamar se bandhke khinchke le jaa rahaa hai......
misraa-e-saani meN sard murde baar pe gaur kijiye...... (burdensome cold dead body)
jiis tarah se ek khali pinjre ko khinchnewala use khinchte waqt koii fikr mehsoos nahi karta (kyuN ki pinjra khali hai) aur use wo khinchne me zehmat uThaani paD rahi hai, jisskii wajah se wo use be-fikr khinche jaa rahaa hai, murde ko bhii le jaane wala fikr nahi karega ki wo kiis tarah murde ko le jaa rahaa hai, aur wo use qamar se baandh ke khinche jaa rahaa hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
phir bhii doubts ho to be jhijhak discussion chalu rakhiye ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता
Last edited by aadeil; 8th August 2014 at 05:28 PM..
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8th August 2014, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan
wahh! wahh!.... kamal hi kamal hai Zarraa saheb..
bohat besh-keemati aur aala darjay ka shair kaha hai aap ne..
DherooN daad-o-mubarakbaad...
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Bahaut bahaut shukriya Hassan bhai
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil
waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
Zarraasaab.. kya khubsurti se aapne meri iis uljhan ko suljha diya ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
aapkii baat bilkul sahi hai... jab abr chhate haiN to mahaul rindoN ke liye bilkul mufeed hota hai ![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif) .....
aapka behad shukr guzaar hooN itne tafsiil se javaab dene ke liye.... ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) And also for the links..
duaaoN ke saath.. CHEERS ![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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meri adna si raayy ko dil mein jagah dene ka bahaut bahaut shukriya Aadeil bhai. aap se guftagoo kar ke bahaut achchha lagta hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) aap ka contribution is thread par aur SDC mein bahaut hi khaas rehta hai.
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil
waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!
Zarraasaab,
kya khubsurat matla bandha hai.....
bahot khub...... dilse daad....
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dher saara shukriya Aadeil bhai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy
bohat khoob. .......................
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Shukriya Zainy ji ................................ ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
wonderfully expressed, each and every aspect of that misra....
My heart full of Reps added..... ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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Khushaamadeed Shaad bhai !! Aap ke aane se mehfil mein bahaar aa gayee ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) Pazeeraayee aur zarranawaazee ka bahaut bahaut shukriya aur dheron duaein ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by N@zneen
Waahhh! zarraji bahot khoob, apke ashaar hamesha dil ko chu jaate hain, hamari khushkismati hai ki ap jaise behad talented shayars se kuch seekhne mil raha hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
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ji nawazish aap ki ... is zarranawaazee ka behad mashqoor hoon aur dua hai ki aap shayari ke safar par isi tarah aage hi aage bardhteeN jaayeiN ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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~$uper M0der@tor~
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8th August 2014, 07:40 PM
Zarraa bhai jaisa ke aapne disccusssion bhi dekhaa hogaa lafz kafas ke uupar.....
what is your opinnion on this.... i request to aadeil saahab dont take this personal.... aapki razaamandi par hi maine is guftgoo ko aage badhaayaa hai....
zarra bhai ki raay ka muntazir rahunga..... aur agar ufaq saahab / zidd saahab dekh rahe hain ye thread to merii unse bhi yahi appeal hai.... ke rahnumaai farmaaen .... mere liye..
Shaad...
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8th August 2014, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthpak
Waaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Zarraa sahab....umda...kya kehne....dheron daad.
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Bahaut bahaut shukriya aap ka Ananthpak ji ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan
humaiN baad-e-bahaari ka aadi bana kar
baad-e-hawaadis se milaate kyuN ho?
taa-umer saath nibhane ka ah.Ed tha!
roz naye azaab se milaatay kyuN ho?
baad-e-bahaarii : spring wind
baad-e-hawaadis : wind of troubles
ah.Ed = promise
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Waah !! Bahaut hi khoobsurat !! Daad Hassan bhai !!
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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8th August 2014, 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
Zarraa bhai jaisa ke aapne disccusssion bhi dekhaa hogaa lafz kafas ke uupar.....
what is your opinnion on this.... i request to aadeil saahab dont take this personal.... aapki razaamandi par hi maine is guftgoo ko aage badhaayaa hai....
zarra bhai ki raay ka muntazir rahunga..... aur agar ufaq saahab / zidd saahab dekh rahe hain ye thread to merii unse bhi yahi appeal hai.... ke rahnumaai farmaaen .... mere liye..
Shaad...
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Shaad bhai aur Aadeil bhai ke beech ek interesting discussion chal raha hai. Mujhe poora yakeen hai ki ye sirf seekhne aur samajhne ke point of view se hi ho raha hai aur is mein kuchh bhi personal naheen hai. Main do behtareen shayaron, do nek-dil insaanon, do committed members aur mere do pyaare doston se kuchh seekhne ki zaroor koshish karoonga un ki ijaazat se. Bas thorhe se waqt ki request kar raha hoon is topic ko study karne ke liye aur apna limited opinion formulate karne ke liye. Jald hi khidmat mein haazir hoounga. Aur agar Zidd sahab, Ufaq sahab ya koyee aur member rehnumaayee kar sakein to un ki meherbaanee hogi. Is activity mein hum ek doosre ki ungli thaam kar hi chalte hain ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
Last edited by zarraa; 8th August 2014 at 08:06 PM..
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8th August 2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zarraa
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bahot shukriyaa aapkii pazeeraai par Zarraa saahab........... mujhe intzaar rahegaa aapki aamad ka....
Shaad.....
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9th August 2014, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
Zarraa bhai jaisa ke aapne disccusssion bhi dekhaa hogaa lafz kafas ke uupar.....
what is your opinnion on this.... i request to aadeil saahab dont take this personal.... aapki razaamandi par hi maine is guftgoo ko aage badhaayaa hai....
zarra bhai ki raay ka muntazir rahunga..... aur agar ufaq saahab / zidd saahab dekh rahe hain ye thread to merii unse bhi yahi appeal hai.... ke rahnumaai farmaaen .... mere liye..
Shaad...
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aadeil bhai, shaad bhai - shukriya ki aap ki guftagoo se mujhe aur pardhne waalon ko ek aham lafz par ghaur karne ka mauka mil raha hai - (bhale hi ye is baar ka lafz naheen hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ). saath hi shayari ke baareek nukton par hum soch rahe hain jis se mashq-e-sukhan bhi ho rahi hai. aap doston ke zariye is activity ka sahi maqsad haasil ho raha hai - aur lagta hai ki mujhe agli baar ka lafz bhi mil gaya hai - QAFAS
pehle mein is discussion ke key points recap kar deta hoon, jitna main samajh paaya hoon :
1. hum sab ye maante hain ki ye ek behtareen sher hai - pur-soz, pur-asar, kamaal ki manzarkashi kiye hue - ek baar phir se dheron daad Aadeil bhai
kamar se baandh ke khinchenge wo tere kafas* ko
kise uthaanee hai azaab is sard murde baar* ki
(kafas = dead body, baar = burden)
Aadeil
2. hum ye bhi maante hain ki lafz "qafas" ka literal meaning "cage" ya "prison" hai. is ka figurative ya symbolic meaning construct kiya ja sakta hai "body" ya "dead body" ke taur pe, jis ki misaal ye sher hain (jo Aadeil bhai ne quote kiye hain - waah kya khoob sher share kiye !)
maiN hone ko yuN to rihaa ho gayaa huuN
meri ruuh ab tak hai lekin qafas meN
Sher Singh 'Naaz' Dehlvi
qafas ko chaman se siva jaante haiN
har ik saaNs ko ham sabaa jaante haiN
Nasir Kazmi
is se pehle ki apna limited conclusion arz karoon, mere kuchh basic observations :
1. Aadeil bhai ka interpretation hai ki "wo tere prison jaise body ko kamar se baandh kar kheechenge kyunki teri cold dead body ka bhaar uthaane ki punishment kise qabool hogi" - hopefully I have captured the intended interpretation, pls correct me otherwise.
2. Shaad bhai ki uljhan shayad ye lag rahi hai mujhe ki *"qafas" ka koyee direct connection sher ke andar establish naheen hua hai to use dead body ka darja kaise diya hai ye ayaan naheen - hopefully I have captured the essence of the question correctly, pls correct me otherwise.
3. Ek ye sawaal bhi socha ja sakta hai ki "dead body" ka symbol "qafas" hai ya "khaali qafas", or is "qafas" good enough as a symbol. Not sure if this point is also contributing to the questions being raised. I will leave this point as food for thought for now.
4. Waise, sirf zauq-e-sukhan haasil karne ke liye aur kuchh is loye ki ye sher dil ko chhoo gaya hai, is sher ka ek aur potential interpretation, jo zehn mein aaya hai, arz kar raha hoon - Aadeil bhai hope to have your permission for it - "murde ko uthaane waala apni kamar se cage ko baandh ke kheench raha hai (apni mehnat kam karne ke liye shaayad), kyunki thande murde jism ka bojh uthaane ki saza use gawaara naheen. haay, zindagi kati bhi to qafas ke andar aur marne ke baad ye zillat ki kaandhe par uthaaye jaane ke bajaaye laash kamar se kheenchee ja rahi hai". is interpretation mein "qafas" ka literal meaning aata hai -.lekin chhorhiye, hum us hi interpretation par aage guftagoo karenge jo Aadeil sahab ka hai - arrey! aakhir ye un ka sher hai, to interpretation bhi un ka hi hoga ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) warna wo hamaare liye kahenge "maan na maan, main tera mehmaan"
chaliye, lagta hai main ne kaafee footage kha li hai
ab apna limited conclusion arz karta hoon, which is based on my PERSONAL OPINION only and NOT on any sort of TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE. would be most happy to hear any counter opinion or any other views on this matter which will help my learning.
mere khayaal mein, learning ke liye sawaal ye hai ki agar sher mein kisi lafz ya jumle ka figurative ya symbolic meaning istemaal mein aa raha hai, to kya us ko sher ke andar hi establish karna zarooree hai, ya phir hum assume kar sakte hain ki is ka ye matlab nikal sakta hai aur use sher meiN establish karna zarooree naheen hai. to agar "qafas" ko "human body" ya "human life" ke symbol ke taur par use karna hai to kya "qafas" se related kuchh na kuchh sher mein honi chaahiye?
is point par ghaur karne ke liye main un 2 aashaar ka sahaara le raha hoon jo oopar diye gaye hain aur jin mein lafz "qafas" ko as a symbol for human existence use kiya gaya hai - this is not an exhaustive conclusion, just based on little observation...
maiN hone ko yuN to rihaa ho gayaa huuN
meri ruuh ab tak hai lekin qafas meN
*Sher Singh 'Naaz' Dehlvi
qafas ko chaman se siva jaante haiN
har ik saaNs ko ham sabaa jaante haiN
Nasir Kazmi
in mein mujhe aisa lag raha hai ki shayar ne kuchh na kuchh hint diya hai jo qafas ke literal meaning se talluq rakhta hai, aur aisa kar ke lafz ke literal meaning aur symbolic meaning ke beech mein ek bridge bana diya hai.
Jaise - "maiN hone ko yuN to rihaa ho gayaa huuN - yahaan "rihaa" bridge ka kaam kar raha hai shaayad kyunki rihaayee qafas se hoti hai. *ya "qafas ko chaman se siva jaante haiN" - yahaan "chaman" bridge ka kaam kar raha ho sakta hai kyunki panchhee chaman se qaid hua tha qafas mein aane se pehle.
is hisaab se dekhein, to agar is sher mein "*kamar se baandh ke khinchenge wo tere kafas* ko /*kise uthaanee hai azaab is sard murde baar - is meiN koyee*halka sa bhi hint aa jaaye jo "qafas" ke literal meaning se taaluq rakhtaee hai, to us ke figurative meaning ka lutf aur bhi bardh jaayega - aur ek behtareen sher ka lutf zara aur bhi bardh sakta hai - the good can become great !
yaaron, pata naheen main ne oopar jo bhi kaha hai whether that makes any sense or not. maana main thorhi bahaut shayari kar leta hoon, par mujhe shayari ya urdu ki theory ka itna sa bhi ilm naheen hai...jo bhi kaha hai bas intuition aur gut feel se kaha hai. I request you guys to correct me wherever I may have gone wrong.
waise Aadeil bhai, aap par rashk aa raha hai mujhe, ki abhi kal hi hum ne is thread par Faiz sahab ke sher par analysis ki aap ke kehne par, aur aaj isee thread par hum aap ke sher ki analysis kar rahe hain ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) meri aisi kismet kyoon naheen hai, koyee me sher ko ghaur karne laayak kyoon naheen samajhta ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) just joking, not to be taken seriously ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) :
aur Shaad bhai, shukriya aap ka ki aap ne ek constructive discussion prompt kiya jis ke zariye hum aapas mein apne khayaalaat baant rahe hain.
duaon ke saath
Zarraa
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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9th August 2014, 01:13 AM
Thank you SO much for SUCH kind words N@zneen ji !! Aap ke sensitive appreciation se waqayee bahaut support milta hai.
Ji, bilkul, jis bhi tareeke se main yahaan par aaye doston ki koyee bhi madad ya khidmat kar sakta hoon, dil se karoonga.
Par ek baat jo main pehle bhi arz kar chuka hoon, aisa naheen hai ki mujhe urdu zabaan ya shayari ki baareekiyon ka kuchh zyada ilm hai. Is muamale mein abhi primary student hoon ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) . Shayari main thorhi bahaut is liye kar paata hoon kyunki main ne bahaut chhoti si umr se hi kavita aur shayari kehna shuru kar diya tha (ulti seedhi, be sir pair ki ... wahi silsila abhi tak qaayam hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) )....to ab 30 saal se oopar ho gaye koshish karte hue ...practice kaafi huwee hai itne saalon mein, par urdu mujhe na naturally aati thi na hi formally seekhi hai, aur na hi shayari ki koyee technical knowledge .... bas dekh sun ke, experiment kar ke thorha bahaut pick up kiya hai. agar shayari ya zabaan par main kuchh arz karta hoon to sirf experience, intuition ya gut feel ke aadhaar par hota hai. However, within these limitations, I will continuously try and serve this gathering the best I can ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) Isi liye mujhe sabhi members ka support chaahiye ki har koyee apni apni knowledge ya experience share kare taaki collectively hum sab zyada se zyada seekh paayein.
Ek baar phir se pazeeraayee aur hausla afzaayee ka bahaut bahaut shukriya aur dhron duaein ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) aur aap ke sher ka intezaar rahega ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
Last edited by zarraa; 9th August 2014 at 01:32 AM..
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9th August 2014, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
bahot shukriyaa aapkii pazeeraai par Zarraa saahab........... mujhe intzaar rahegaa aapki aamad ka....
Shaad.....
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waise Shaad bhai ... maana aap ne seekhne ke silsile mein achchha contribution kiya hai ...par aap ko itni aasaanee se chhutti naheen milegi ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ... main hamesha se aap ki shayari ka kaayal raha hoon ... to isi haq se "azaab" par aap se ek khoobsurat dilkash sher ki maang kar raha hoon ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif)
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
Last edited by zarraa; 9th August 2014 at 02:05 AM..
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9th August 2014, 02:04 AM
kya sazaa doge kar rakheeN haiN jamaa
mastiyaaN har azaab meiN hum ne
- zarraa
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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9th August 2014, 08:57 AM
Zarraa saahab aapki daanishmandii kaa main khud bhii kaayal hoon aur aisaa lagtaa hai ke kaafi had tak aapne bhii usii baat ko point out kiyaa hai jo main bhii kahnaa chaah rahaa thaa...
Sher to aadeil saahab kaa nihaaytii khoobsurat hai.. lekin bas mujhe us bridge us correlation ki kamii mahsoos ho rahii thii.. isliye maine unse sawaal kiyaa .. aur aapka shukrguzaar hoon jo aapne waqt nikaala aur apna keemtii analysis hamare saath share kiyaa..
Ek baat main add karna chahtaa hoon ... darasal sukhan me bandishen nahi hoteen ..kuch cheezen aise present ki jati hain jo apne logical meaning ko interpret nahii kartii hain lekin agar frankly dekha jaae to shaayrii kii khoobsurtiii bhii usii se hai.....
jahaan tak maine padhaa hai aur jitnii meri understanding hai , ustaad shaayron ne kaii baar jism ko rooh ka qafas kahaa hai.... kai baar aisaa mahsoos hota hai un sheron se ke rooh jism ki kaid me hai, rooh jism me qafas me hai... ye bridge aapko common milegaa har us sher me jahaan qafas ko jism se milaaya gaya hai.....
Zarraa bhai main aaapka ehsaanmand hoon jo aap aapne apna waqt nikaala aur keemtii analysis hamaare saath share kiyaa..... aur beshaq main aapka karzdaar ho gayaa hoon aur jald se jald aapke huqqum ki tameel hogii....
aap dono ka behad shukriyaa jo aapne is healthy debate ke zariye jaaan ne samajhne ka mauqaa diyaa...
ijaazat talab..
khaaksaar...
Last edited by sameer'shaad'; 9th August 2014 at 09:48 AM..
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9th August 2014, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kya sazaa doge kar rakheeN haiN jamaa
mastiyaaN har azaab meiN hum ne
- zarraa
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zarraa bhaaai bakamaal adaaygee nazar aayee hai is sher me..... waahhhhh
kaafii mastiyaaana sher lagaa mujhe...... alag andaaz ko mera salaam...
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9th August 2014, 11:39 AM
Zarraa saahab ke huqum ki tameel karte hue lafze Azaab par ek Qitaa pesh hai....
Qafas udaas hai aayee sabaa na yaar aayaa,
bahot dino se to ham ko bhi naa qaraar aayaa.
tabiyat huii azaab ke kuch din se dostoN,
na theek hii hote hain naa bukhaar aayaa..
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9th August 2014, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kya sazaa doge kar rakheeN haiN jamaa
mastiyaaN har azaab meiN hum ne
- zarraa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
Zarraa saahab ke huqum ki tameel karte hue lafze Azaab par ek Qitaa pesh hai....
Qafas udaas hai aayee sabaa na yaar aayaa,
bahot dino se to ham ko bhi naa qaraar aayaa.
tabiyat huii azaab ke kuch din se dostoN,
na theek hii hote hain naa bukhaar aayaa..
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Masha Allah bohat khoob. .............
Zainy
PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...
Nm
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9th August 2014, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
aadeil bhai, shaad bhai - shukriya ki aap ki guftagoo se mujhe aur pardhne waalon ko ek aham lafz par ghaur karne ka mauka mil raha hai - (bhale hi ye is baar ka lafz naheen hai ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ). saath hi shayari ke baareek nukton par hum soch rahe hain jis se mashq-e-sukhan bhi ho rahi hai. aap doston ke zariye is activity ka sahi maqsad haasil ho raha hai - aur lagta hai ki mujhe agli baar ka lafz bhi mil gaya hai - QAFAS
pehle mein is discussion ke key points recap kar deta hoon, jitna main samajh paaya hoon :
1. hum sab ye maante hain ki ye ek behtareen sher hai - pur-soz, pur-asar, kamaal ki manzarkashi kiye hue - ek baar phir se dheron daad Aadeil bhai
kamar se baandh ke khinchenge wo tere kafas* ko
kise uthaanee hai azaab is sard murde baar* ki
(kafas = dead body, baar = burden)
Aadeil
2. hum ye bhi maante hain ki lafz "qafas" ka literal meaning "cage" ya "prison" hai. is ka figurative ya symbolic meaning construct kiya ja sakta hai "body" ya "dead body" ke taur pe, jis ki misaal ye sher hain (jo Aadeil bhai ne quote kiye hain - waah kya khoob sher share kiye !)
maiN hone ko yuN to rihaa ho gayaa huuN
meri ruuh ab tak hai lekin qafas meN
Sher Singh 'Naaz' Dehlvi
qafas ko chaman se siva jaante haiN
har ik saaNs ko ham sabaa jaante haiN
Nasir Kazmi
is se pehle ki apna limited conclusion arz karoon, mere kuchh basic observations :
1. Aadeil bhai ka interpretation hai ki "wo tere prison jaise body ko kamar se baandh kar kheechenge kyunki teri cold dead body ka bhaar uthaane ki punishment kise qabool hogi" - hopefully I have captured the intended interpretation, pls correct me otherwise.
2. Shaad bhai ki uljhan shayad ye lag rahi hai mujhe ki *"qafas" ka koyee direct connection sher ke andar establish naheen hua hai to use dead body ka darja kaise diya hai ye ayaan naheen - hopefully I have captured the essence of the question correctly, pls correct me otherwise.
3. Ek ye sawaal bhi socha ja sakta hai ki "dead body" ka symbol "qafas" hai ya "khaali qafas", or is "qafas" good enough as a symbol. Not sure if this point is also contributing to the questions being raised. I will leave this point as food for thought for now.
4. Waise, sirf zauq-e-sukhan haasil karne ke liye aur kuchh is loye ki ye sher dil ko chhoo gaya hai, is sher ka ek aur potential interpretation, jo zehn mein aaya hai, arz kar raha hoon - Aadeil bhai hope to have your permission for it - "murde ko uthaane waala apni kamar se cage ko baandh ke kheench raha hai (apni mehnat kam karne ke liye shaayad), kyunki thande murde jism ka bojh uthaane ki saza use gawaara naheen. haay, zindagi kati bhi to qafas ke andar aur marne ke baad ye zillat ki kaandhe par uthaaye jaane ke bajaaye laash kamar se kheenchee ja rahi hai". is interpretation mein "qafas" ka literal meaning aata hai -.lekin chhorhiye, hum us hi interpretation par aage guftagoo karenge jo Aadeil sahab ka hai - arrey! aakhir ye un ka sher hai, to interpretation bhi un ka hi hoga ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) warna wo hamaare liye kahenge "maan na maan, main tera mehmaan"
chaliye, lagta hai main ne kaafee footage kha li hai
ab apna limited conclusion arz karta hoon, which is based on my PERSONAL OPINION only and NOT on any sort of TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE. would be most happy to hear any counter opinion or any other views on this matter which will help my learning.
mere khayaal mein, learning ke liye sawaal ye hai ki agar sher mein kisi lafz ya jumle ka figurative ya symbolic meaning istemaal mein aa raha hai, to kya us ko sher ke andar hi establish karna zarooree hai, ya phir hum assume kar sakte hain ki is ka ye matlab nikal sakta hai aur use sher meiN establish karna zarooree naheen hai. to agar "qafas" ko "human body" ya "human life" ke symbol ke taur par use karna hai to kya "qafas" se related kuchh na kuchh sher mein honi chaahiye?
is point par ghaur karne ke liye main un 2 aashaar ka sahaara le raha hoon jo oopar diye gaye hain aur jin mein lafz "qafas" ko as a symbol for human existence use kiya gaya hai - this is not an exhaustive conclusion, just based on little observation...
maiN hone ko yuN to rihaa ho gayaa huuN
meri ruuh ab tak hai lekin qafas meN
*Sher Singh 'Naaz' Dehlvi
qafas ko chaman se siva jaante haiN
har ik saaNs ko ham sabaa jaante haiN
Nasir Kazmi
in mein mujhe aisa lag raha hai ki shayar ne kuchh na kuchh hint diya hai jo qafas ke literal meaning se talluq rakhta hai, aur aisa kar ke lafz ke literal meaning aur symbolic meaning ke beech mein ek bridge bana diya hai.
Jaise - "maiN hone ko yuN to rihaa ho gayaa huuN - yahaan "rihaa" bridge ka kaam kar raha hai shaayad kyunki rihaayee qafas se hoti hai. *ya "qafas ko chaman se siva jaante haiN" - yahaan "chaman" bridge ka kaam kar raha ho sakta hai kyunki panchhee chaman se qaid hua tha qafas mein aane se pehle.
is hisaab se dekhein, to agar is sher mein "*kamar se baandh ke khinchenge wo tere kafas* ko /*kise uthaanee hai azaab is sard murde baar - is meiN koyee*halka sa bhi hint aa jaaye jo "qafas" ke literal meaning se taaluq rakhtaee hai, to us ke figurative meaning ka lutf aur bhi bardh jaayega - aur ek behtareen sher ka lutf zara aur bhi bardh sakta hai - the good can become great !
yaaron, pata naheen main ne oopar jo bhi kaha hai whether that makes any sense or not. maana main thorhi bahaut shayari kar leta hoon, par mujhe shayari ya urdu ki theory ka itna sa bhi ilm naheen hai...jo bhi kaha hai bas intuition aur gut feel se kaha hai. I request you guys to correct me wherever I may have gone wrong.
waise Aadeil bhai, aap par rashk aa raha hai mujhe, ki abhi kal hi hum ne is thread par Faiz sahab ke sher par analysis ki aap ke kehne par, aur aaj isee thread par hum aap ke sher ki analysis kar rahe hain ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) meri aisi kismet kyoon naheen hai, koyee me sher ko ghaur karne laayak kyoon naheen samajhta ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) just joking, not to be taken seriously ![Smilie](images/smilies/smile.gif) :
aur Shaad bhai, shukriya aap ka ki aap ne ek constructive discussion prompt kiya jis ke zariye hum aapas mein apne khayaalaat baant rahe hain.
duaon ke saath
Zarraa
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Zarraa saheb!
Be-inteha ilm ki taaQat hai aap ke paas...
jis danish-mandi ke saath aap ne tafseel biyaaN ki hai,
us se boht kuch seekhne ko mila... aap apne andar aik
ilm ka zakhera rakhte haiN aur hum jese talib-ilmooN ke liye
roshni haiN!.. Allah aap ko salamat rakhe...
aur aap ko aur humaiN kam-ilmoN ke sharr se mehfooz rakhe (ameen),
Apna khiyaal rakhiye,
DuaooN ke saath,
*hSn* : parStaar
tumhara shoq dekha to ghazal hum ne nazar kar di!
kabhi fursat meiN sun lena, bohat ashaar baqi haiN... ("Asad")
Last edited by Hassan; 9th August 2014 at 01:04 PM..
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Some Mirrors Lie...
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shehr-e-husn
Rep Power: 44
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9th August 2014, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarraa
kya sazaa doge kar rakheeN haiN jamaa
mastiyaaN har azaab meiN hum ne
- zarraa
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wahhH!.... aik achhota khiyaal...
aap ka yeh alag andaaz hamesha hi dil chuu jata hai...
DherooN daad!
*hSn* : parStaar
tumhara shoq dekha to ghazal hum ne nazar kar di!
kabhi fursat meiN sun lena, bohat ashaar baqi haiN... ("Asad")
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~$uper M0der@tor~
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Rep Power: 61
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9th August 2014, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy
Masha Allah bohat khoob. .............
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bahot shukriyaa Zainy saaheba...........
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Registered User
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Posts: 1,724
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rep Power: 37
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9th August 2014, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
Zarraa saahab aapki daanishmandii kaa main khud bhii kaayal hoon aur aisaa lagtaa hai ke kaafi had tak aapne bhii usii baat ko point out kiyaa hai jo main bhii kahnaa chaah rahaa thaa...
Sher to aadeil saahab kaa nihaaytii khoobsurat hai.. lekin bas mujhe us bridge us correlation ki kamii mahsoos ho rahii thii.. isliye maine unse sawaal kiyaa .. aur aapka shukrguzaar hoon jo aapne waqt nikaala aur apna keemtii analysis hamare saath share kiyaa..
Ek baat main add karna chahtaa hoon ... darasal sukhan me bandishen nahi hoteen ..kuch cheezen aise present ki jati hain jo apne logical meaning ko interpret nahii kartii hain lekin agar frankly dekha jaae to shaayrii kii khoobsurtiii bhii usii se hai.....
jahaan tak maine padhaa hai aur jitnii meri understanding hai , ustaad shaayron ne kaii baar jism ko rooh ka qafas kahaa hai.... kai baar aisaa mahsoos hota hai un sheron se ke rooh jism ki kaid me hai, rooh jism me qafas me hai... ye bridge aapko common milegaa har us sher me jahaan qafas ko jism se milaaya gaya hai.....
Zarraa bhai main aaapka ehsaanmand hoon jo aap aapne apna waqt nikaala aur keemtii analysis hamaare saath share kiyaa..... aur beshaq main aapka karzdaar ho gayaa hoon aur jald se jald aapke huqqum ki tameel hogii....
aap dono ka behad shukriyaa jo aapne is healthy debate ke zariye jaaan ne samajhne ka mauqaa diyaa...
ijaazat talab..
khaaksaar...
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Shukriya Shaad bhai. Khushi hai ki aap ke aur Aadeil bhai ke zariye humein seekhne ko kuchh mila.
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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Registered User
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9th August 2014, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer'shaad'
Zarraa saahab ke huqum ki tameel karte hue lafze Azaab par ek Qitaa pesh hai....
Qafas udaas hai aayee sabaa na yaar aayaa,
bahot dino se to ham ko bhi naa qaraar aayaa.
tabiyat huii azaab ke kuch din se dostoN,
na theek hii hote hain naa bukhaar aayaa..
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Awwal to bahaut bahaut shukriya Shaad bhai meri darkhwast ka paas rakhne ka
Aur wwwwaaaahhh kya khoobsurat qita farmaaya hai. Dil e muztar ki haalat ka kya dilchasp bayaan !! Ye azaab bhi kya qayaamat ka hai na theek hote hain na hi bukhaar aata hai !! Waaahh !!! Dheron dili daad aap ko !!
maiN rehnuma ke kahe raastoN se door raha
mera maqaam sada manziloN se door raha
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