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Darkhwast e islaah
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Darkhwast e islaah - 12th January 2013, 05:03 PM

Tasleemaat bhaiyo wa behno, Jaisa ki ham sab nay daykha ki madrasa tou kabka khul chuka haye laykin dars ki shuruaat abhi tak nahee huee, isee cheez ko madd e nazar rakhtay huay nacheez nay socha chlao apni hi kavish say Bismillah Kar detay hayn.

Sawaal:
1.Sabsay pahlay sabhee arbaab e zauq wa shayeqeen e shayree say islaah ki darkaar haye jahaan munsaabi samjhayn, please come forward with your suggestions as to where there is a need for or room for improvement in the bayanee and adaygee.

2. Suaal raqm do yay haye ki yay kaavish kis category mayn shumaar hogee.. ghazal ya nazm? Aur kyoon?

Ilteja e islaah kay saath aap sab ki aara ka muntazir
Ahmad


"Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaa kyun hai?"


Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai?


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai?


Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai?


Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?


Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai?
   
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maikasH
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14th January 2013, 05:05 PM

aadaab Ahmad bhai,

maine Masood Hassas bhai se darkhuvaast ki thi ke voh aapki is kaavish par tabsira kareiN, unhone mujhe yeh khat bheja hai kyoNke unke wahaaN se post nahiiN ho paa raha tha

yeh raha unka khat :



AADAAB

Jalaa kar khoon e dil hi she’r likhta hai koyi shaayir
Jo haq bhar daad na paaye bade takleef hoti hai


Jahaan tak mujhe yaad aa raha hai ye sher achaanak meri zabaan se us waqt nikla tha jab main delhi me vikas zidd bhai lucky and kunal ke saath baitha huwa tha aor aaj jab sdc pe aana huwa to wahi sher yaad aa gaya

Ji haan sher dil se kaha jata hai aor daad na milne pe takleef hona laazmi hai magar us ke kuchh osool hain agar un ka paalan kiya jaaye to daad zaroor mile gi

Khaas taour pe GHAZAL ka apna osool hai us ko saamne rakh ke agar kalaam kaha gaya hai tab to ghazal hai warna wo GHAZAL nahi hai

Is khulaasey ke baad aata hun aap ki ghazal pe



Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai


Bahot achhey khoobsoorat sher hai


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai


Theek laayeq e daad


Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai


Ab dekhiye yahaan aap BAHR se bhatak gaye …..khaas taour pe doosra misra aap ka wazn me nahi kiun ki aap ka wazn hai

122—122—122-122

Doosra misra is pe dekhiye to aap ko ehsaas ho jaaye ga ki aap se kiya ghalati huyi hai


Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai


Theek achha sher


Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai


Ek baat ka dheyaan den …HAR WO ALIF JIS PE ***MADD*** ( AAM AAS AAP ) AA JAAYE WO KABHI BHI NAHI GIR SAKTAA

Aor aap ne AA ko 1 le liya hai is liye yahaan bhi aap ko dekhnaa hogaa

Doosrey sher me aap ne lafz BASEYRAA istemaal kiya hai

Ab ye bataa dun ki har lafz ki eyk HAQEEQAT O MAAHIYAT / MANA AAFREENI hoti hai usi ke liye us ka istemaal ho sakta hai jab jab MANA aafreeni me jhol aaye gaa sher apni HASIYAT kho de ga

Aap dekhiye ki BASEYRAA ki jagah to Viraan ho sakti hai khud Baseyraa nahi..

Is liye yahaan bhi nazr e saani ki haajat hai

Aap ki taqtee ke liye eyk osool bataa deta hun ye sirf aap ke liye hi nahi balki sdc pe tamaam visit karne waaloN ke kaam aaye gi

Koi bhi lafz ki sirf 2 haalat hoto hai ..ki us ke HARF yaa to akele hain yaa kisi se mile hain ..micaal ke taour pe NIGAHBAAN me noon kisi se nahi milaa hai us ke baad GAAF hai jo ki apne baad aane waale HAA se milaa hai jo akela ho gaa wo 1 mana jaaye gaa jo kisi se mila hogaa wo 2 tasleem hogaa

Ni1 ----gah2----- baa2 ------n1

Noon ke zer thaa aor kisi se mila nahi tha to 1 huwa jab ki GAAF apne baad aane waale HAA se milaa thaa to 2 huwaa us ke baad BAA hai jo apne baad aane waale ALIF se mila hai to zaahir hai 2 hogaa akheer me NOON hai jo kisi se nahi milaa hai to 1 hi hogaa

Is tarah

Ni1 ----gah2 ----baa2----n1

Ho gaya

Agar kisi saahab ko ye samajh me na aaya ho to wo koi bhi LAFZ le ke us ke bare me pooch saktey hain


Yaqeen kijiye agar aap ko ye 1-2 karna aa gaya to aap kisi aor ke muhtaaj na hongey balki khud apne kalaam ki BAHR ko saheeh kar saktey hain

Tawajjoh se parhne ke liye shukriya

Masoodhassaas Kuwait


.........................................

is tarhe teri yaad meiN har shaam dhaley hai
goyaa koyi nagin si kalejey pe chaley hai

maikash
...............................

Last edited by maikasH; 14th January 2013 at 05:08 PM..
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14th January 2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:
Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?
Aadaab Ahmad SaHb !
na to maiN iShlaaH kerny laaiq hoN or na hi koi ai'traaZ hai mujhy appke kalaam per mager ik sawal aaya mere zehn mai soocha pooch loN .


jahaN tak meri naqis e'lmi hai to gulshan ko jalany waaly ko itna e'lm to hoga hi hai keh us ne kya kiya phir jalaany waala yeh kaisy sooch sakta hai keh yeh jala huwa kiyoN hai ???

albta woh yeh zaahir zaroor ker sakta hai ke usko pata nahi hai .

zaahir kerny mai or soochny mai farq hoota hai . mujhy jitna smajh thi mai ne utna pooch liya yaqeenan mai ghalat ho sakta hoN is maiN koi shak nahi hai mager appki thoRi si viZaHat se mujh t^alib e e'lm ko bahut kuch seekhny ko mil jaaey ga


kuch kahoN to sharm saar hoN
chup rahoN to guneh gaar hoN
   
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zidd
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14th January 2013, 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by maikasH View Post
aadaab Ahmad bhai,

maine Masood Hassas bhai se darkhuvaast ki thi ke voh aapki is kaavish par tabsira kareiN, unhone mujhe yeh khat bheja hai kyoNke unke wahaaN se post nahiiN ho paa raha tha

yeh raha unka khat :



AADAAB

Jalaa kar khoon e dil hi she’r likhta hai koyi shaayir
Jo haq bhar daad na paaye bade takleef hoti hai


Jahaan tak mujhe yaad aa raha hai ye sher achaanak meri zabaan se us waqt nikla tha jab main delhi me vikas zidd bhai lucky and kunal ke saath baitha huwa tha aor aaj jab sdc pe aana huwa to wahi sher yaad aa gaya

Ji haan sher dil se kaha jata hai aor daad na milne pe takleef hona laazmi hai magar us ke kuchh osool hain agar un ka paalan kiya jaaye to daad zaroor mile gi

Khaas taour pe GHAZAL ka apna osool hai us ko saamne rakh ke agar kalaam kaha gaya hai tab to ghazal hai warna wo GHAZAL nahi hai

Is khulaasey ke baad aata hun aap ki ghazal pe



Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai


Bahot achhey khoobsoorat sher hai


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai


Theek laayeq e daad


Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai


Ab dekhiye yahaan aap BAHR se bhatak gaye …..khaas taour pe doosra misra aap ka wazn me nahi kiun ki aap ka wazn hai

122—122—122-122

Doosra misra is pe dekhiye to aap ko ehsaas ho jaaye ga ki aap se kiya ghalati huyi hai


Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai


Theek achha sher


Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai


Ek baat ka dheyaan den …HAR WO ALIF JIS PE ***MADD*** ( AAM AAS AAP ) AA JAAYE WO KABHI BHI NAHI GIR SAKTAA

Aor aap ne AA ko 1 le liya hai is liye yahaan bhi aap ko dekhnaa hogaa

Doosrey sher me aap ne lafz BASEYRAA istemaal kiya hai

Ab ye bataa dun ki har lafz ki eyk HAQEEQAT O MAAHIYAT / MANA AAFREENI hoti hai usi ke liye us ka istemaal ho sakta hai jab jab MANA aafreeni me jhol aaye gaa sher apni HASIYAT kho de ga

Aap dekhiye ki BASEYRAA ki jagah to Viraan ho sakti hai khud Baseyraa nahi..

Is liye yahaan bhi nazr e saani ki haajat hai

masood sahab aadaab,
kaise hai aap?


Aap ki taqtee ke liye eyk osool bataa deta hun ye sirf aap ke liye hi nahi balki sdc pe tamaam visit karne waaloN ke kaam aaye gi

mai qatai apke bataye usool par aitraaz nahi jataa raha hu. magar mere hisaab se is usool me ek loophole sa laga. kyuki ye jo usool hai ,isme flexible syllables ko count nahi kiya gaya hai, aisa mujhe mehsoos hua. ye bhi ho sakta hai ki mai samjh nahi paya. magar ap to sab clear kar hi denge , bus is lalach me ye post kat raha hu, ki ilm me aapke through aur izafaa ho mera .

Koi bhi lafz ki sirf 2 haalat hoto hai ..ki us ke HARF yaa to akele hain yaa kisi se mile hain ..micaal ke taour pe NIGAHBAAN me noon kisi se nahi milaa hai us ke baad GAAF hai jo ki apne baad aane waale HAA se milaa hai jo akela ho gaa wo 1 mana jaaye gaa jo kisi se mila hogaa wo 2 tasleem hogaa

Ni1 ----gah2----- baa2 ------n1

unfortunately urdu me'letter' aur 'syllable' ke liye alag alag lafz nahi hai(shayad)..dono ko 'harf' kaha jata hai......
unfortunately urdu me syllable aur letter ,dono ko 'harf' kahte hai
jaise ki harf akela ho to usse letter kahte hai,jiko upar bataye usool ke hisaab se 1 hona chaiye

aur jis harf me dusre harf ka vasl (milan) ho , jise english me syllable kahte hai......use aap 2 wazn de rahe hai

magar ye sab kasauti par khara nahi utar raha hai

harf flexible bhi hota hai . jaise upar ke usool ke hisaab se 'kaa' (kaaf aur alif ka vasl) ka wazn 2 hoga ,magar aksar iska wazn 1 bhi hota hai.

harf flexible bhi hota hai . jaise upar ke usool ke hisaab se 'kaa' (kaaf aur alif ka vasl) ka wazn 2 hoga ,magar aksar iska wazn 1 bhi hota hai.


Noon ke zer thaa aor kisi se mila nahi tha to 1 huwa jab ki GAAF apne baad aane waale HAA se milaa thaa to 2 huwaa us ke baad BAA hai jo apne baad aane waale ALIF se mila hai to zaahir hai 2 hogaa akheer me NOON hai jo kisi se nahi milaa hai to 1 hi hogaa

dusra example deta hu

tu-mha-raa ke 'raa' ka wazn aksar 1 hota hai( dikhaii deti hai jiski dhadkan tumhrara dil ya hamara dil hai)
mere khayaaal se ye usool taktee ke liye zara thek nahi


Is tarah

Ni1 ----gah2 ----baa2----n1

Ho gaya

Agar kisi saahab ko ye samajh me na aaya ho to wo koi bhi LAFZ le ke us ke bare me pooch saktey hain


Yaqeen kijiye agar aap ko ye 1-2 karna aa gaya to aap kisi aor ke muhtaaj na hongey balki khud apne kalaam ki BAHR ko saheeh kar saktey hain

Tawajjoh se parhne ke liye shukriya



Masoodhassaas Kuwait

mere hisaab se urdu me bhale letter aur syllable ko harf kaha gaya hai,magar sukhan ki practice ne vo distinction hai ,like an unwritten rule
har lafz ko shayri me syllable ke hisaab se toda jata hai
iska ek simple rule mai bata sakta hu...
jaha se consonant shuru hota hai waha se naya sylllable shuru hoga...99.99 % of the times (exceptions har language me hote hai)

zin-da-gi
aa-ya
ha-me-sha
le-kin
dum
sha-raa-rat..........(ek tecnical tarika hai toDne ka)...practice ke baad iski zarurat nahi padti...
jinhe hindi aati hai usliye to aur bhi aasaan hai...

a -1 ( kali)
aa-1/2( 2 in first syllable/2 in middle syllable/ flexible in last syllableone syllable word)
e-1 (kisi)
ee-2 (peena)
u-1(mujhe
uu-2( phool)
ae -1/2 (mera)
ai-2(99%)(aisa)
0- 2 (rona)(prone to exceptions)
ao -2 (aurat)

ofcourse for beginners this is sufficient...advanced learners dont need this crutch)

zainyji had this same system modified to english language...there were some rare instances in them which myself and zainyji removed. if she has it it can be helpful to those who dont know urdu and hindi.

ragrds

Last edited by zidd; 14th January 2013 at 11:01 PM..
   
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15th January 2013, 01:51 AM

People knowing only roman script can take the help of this post to ascertain wazn of syllables....

it is accurate to a great extent and uses roman script for ascertaining wazn.
( people not knowing urdu and/or devnagri script cheer up)



we will treat

‘a’ as in ‘akbar’,
‘i’ as in ‘ishq’,
‘u’ as in ‘uljhan’,
‘e’ as in ‘ek’ (‘ai’ and ‘ei’ should be treated as ‘e’),
‘o’ as in ‘bahaaro’,
‘aa’ as in ‘aaraam’,
‘ii’ as in ‘merii’ and
‘uu’ as in ‘juutaa’




An ‘a’, ‘i’ or ‘u’ by itself or after a consonant may most probably produce a short syllable (weight ‘1’).


examples

'a'

only vowel = agar
consonant + vowel = magar

'i'

only vowel = ilaaj
consonant + vowel = milaap

'u'

only consonant = udhar
consonent + vowel = sudhar






An ‘e’, ‘o’, ‘aa’, ‘ii’ or ‘uu’ by itself or after a consonant will probably produce a long syllable (weight ‘2’).

examples

'e'

only vowel = ekaant
consonant + vowel= bekaar

'o'

only vowel = oar
consonant + vowel = sona

'aa'

only vowel = aaraam
consonant + vowel = naadaan

'ii'

only vowel = iiccha
consonant + vowel = diivana

'uu'

only vowel = ulTa
consonant + vowel = juutaa


An ‘a’, ‘i’ or ‘u’ between two consonants or before a consonant will produce a long syllable (weight ‘2’).

'a'

consonant + vowel + consonant = rab, sab ,jab

'i'


consonant + vowel + consonant = dil, chil , mil

'u'

consonant + vowel + consonant = chub ,dukh



An 'e' and 'o' are flexible , any word ending with "e" or "o" then its weight can be taken as 1 or 2 depending upon the requirement..


examples = chupke chalte jaagate




Zainy


PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

Nm
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15th January 2013, 02:34 AM

adaab zidd bhai
badee khushi huyi aap ko dekh ke ..main theek hun abhi kal hi vikas se aap ke baare me baat ho rahi thi
jin baaton ki jaanib aap ne ishaarah kiya hai wo URDU me hai aor us ko HOROOF E ILLAT kaha jaata hai
jis me ALIF + WOW+ CHHOTI HAA+ YAA / BADI YAA aatey hain
in ki do sooratbataayi gayi hai
ya ato in ka EYLAAN hogaa yaa SOQOOT

yaani ki in ko giraya bhi ja skata hai aor baaqaedah zaahir bhi kiya ja sakta hai yaani ki mila jula ke wahi baat hai jo aap ne bataayi hai
sab se aham baat ye hai ki bahr ke arkaan ke hisaab se in HOROOF me se jo jis jagah jis haal me fit ho jaaye HAM AAHNAGI ko barqaraar rakhtey huye wahi us ki HAALAT tasleem ki jaaye gi
aap ne jo sher pesh kiya hai
hamaara dil ya tumhara dil hai
yahaan hamara tumhara ka LAIF gira hai to urdu ke eytebaar se RAY KA ZABAR hi baaqi hai ALIF shumaar hi nahi hogaa
mera khiyaal hai ki aap is ki mazeed tafseel darj karden taaki aor aasaani moahiya ho jaaye
khush rahiye badee nawaazish
mukhlis
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zidd
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15th January 2013, 10:20 PM

================================================== ================================================
adaab zidd bhai
badee khushi huyi aap ko dekh ke ..main theek hun abhi kal hi vikas se aap ke baare me baat ho rahi thi

mujhe bhi aap se milkar behad khushi hui.meri bhi arse baad vikas se baat hui parso kuch der ke liye aur kal hui itminaan se. Bhai sahib kahte hai ki ab na ayenge yaha.maine kaha unko yaha na aane ka matlab hai hindustaan chodke chale jana,to hass baithe saheb.......khair unhe wapas to le hi ayenge kisi bhi tarah se.

jin baaton ki jaanib aap ne ishaarah kiya hai wo URDU me hai aor us ko HOROOF E ILLAT kaha jaata hai
jis me ALIF + WOW+ CHHOTI HAA+ YAA / BADI YAA aatey hain

yani ki vowels (for the benefit of members who don’t understand urdu)
like ‘a’ ‘e’ ‘i’ ‘o’ ‘u’.....not surprisingly ‘h’ and ‘y’ are considered semi vowels e.g sly,tryst,fry.
In urdu they are considered full vowels(haroof e illat), it is apparent urdu seems to be more advanced than English . yaha tak to general information hai ,so theek.


in ki do sooratbataayi gayi hai
ya ato in ka EYLAAN hogaa yaa SOQOOT
yaani ki in ko giraya bhi ja skata hai aor baaqaedah zaahir bhi kiya ja sakta hai yaani ki mila jula ke wahi baat hai jo aap ne bataayi hai

mai isse bilkul alag baat kar raha hu masood bhai
Mud’da asl me yaha hai. Ye bhi common knowledge hai wazn giraya jaa sakta hai...baat sirf ye baat, as an information zahir karne ki nahi hai, baat ye hai ki kis tarah? Ab usool yani ki principle jo aapne bataya hai ,wazn derive karne ka usme loophole hai,ye maine kaha.

Aapke darj kiye huye usool ke hisaab se harf ka wazn 1 ya 2 hi sakta hai....flexible wazn ki usme ijazat nahi hai. ab uske begair shayri kaise ho sakti hai? ise mai loophole kah raha hu.


sab se aham baat ye hai ki bahr ke arkaan ke hisaab se in HOROOF me se jo jis jagah jis haal me fit ho jaaye HAM AAHNAGI ko barqaraar rakhtey huye wahi us ki HAALAT tasleem ki jaaye gi


yehi to mai kah raha hu ki kaise hogi us usool ke hisaab se. Bahs ye nahi ki aisa hota hai,vo to hota hi hai. bahs ye hai ki us usool ke hisaab se kaise hota hai?


Aapke is daleel ke hisaab se pahle advanced level seekhna hoga basics seekhne ke liye.
Matlab the effect is preceding the cause.


aap ne jo sher pesh kiya hai
hamaara dil ya tumhara dil hai
yahaan hamara tumhara ka LAIF gira hai to urdu ke eytebaar se RAY KA ZABAR hi baaqi hai ALIF shumaar hi nahi hogaa


ye baat badi hairatangez hai saheb. Aap certified urdudaan hai aur mai fourth class ki written urdu jaanta hu ab tak....aapne jo baat kahi hai vo bahut impact rakhegi. Balki ek revelation hai sabke liye

Agar ‘tumhara’ aur ‘jata’ me se akhir alif hata denge to ‘tumhar’ aur ‘jaat’ nahi ho jayega? To kya shayri me jab ‘tumhara’ ke ‘ra’ ka wazn 1 hoga to ‘tumhar’ likha jayega magar ‘tumhara’ pada jayega?


mera khiyaal hai ki aap is ki mazeed tafseel darj karden taaki aor aasaani moahiya ho jaaye

upar bataye usool ke hisaab se aap inhe wazn de dijiye,,,sari baat clear ho jayegi

-raastah
-aainah
-bhi


khush rahiye badee nawaazish
muk.lis

regards
   
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masoodhassas
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16th January 2013, 02:44 AM

aadaab
raa2--s1--tah2 ------------------ agar HAA ki wazaahat ho rahi hai to warnah raa2----s1---ta1

aa2-----i1----nah2----- agar HAA ki wazaahat hai to warnah AA2-----I1----na1

bhee 2------ agar YAA waazeh hai warna -------bhi1 --- aaye gaa

aataa jataa khaataa peetaa me jahaan jahaan ALIF akheer me aata hai us LAIF ke girne ki soorat me us se pahle waale HARF ki harkat baaqi rah jaati hai
mukhlis masood hassaas
   
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janumanu
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16th January 2013, 04:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad Hyderabadi View Post
Tasleemaat bhaiyo wa behno, Jaisa ki ham sab nay daykha ki madrasa tou kabka khul chuka haye laykin dars ki shuruaat abhi tak nahee huee, isee cheez ko madd e nazar rakhtay huay nacheez nay socha chlao apni hi kavish say Bismillah Kar detay hayn.

Sawaal:
1.Sabsay pahlay sabhee arbaab e zauq wa shayeqeen e shayree say islaah ki darkaar haye jahaan munsaabi samjhayn, please come forward with your suggestions as to where there is a need for or room for improvement in the bayanee and adaygee.

2. Suaal raqm do yay haye ki yay kaavish kis category mayn shumaar hogee.. ghazal ya nazm? Aur kyoon?

Ilteja e islaah kay saath aap sab ki aara ka muntazir
Ahmad


"Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaa kyun hai?"


Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai?


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai?


Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai?


Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?


Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai?
bhayee socha do char bateN maiN bhi kah duN ... baaki baten apni jagah haiN... shayri apni jagah...
khair to dekhte hai... bahyee pahle bata dun... jin do logo ne pahle comment de diye hai unke baad comment dena ... badi himmat ka kaam hai... aur aisi himaat maiN hi kar sakta tha .. aur to koe nahi .. bas itna hi kahungaa ... wo jo kah deN maan lena.. maiN jo kahu ik baar soch lena ...
so zidd n masood bhayee .... MAy I ?

---


Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai?

bhayee... oolaa maiN "mujhe bhi" se kya muraad hai.. kisi aur se bhi poocha hai ya aur ne bhi bataya hai?
sher kacha padta sa laga yahi se mujhe
iski ek surat likh de raha hun...
bhalee lage to bhala ..nahi lage to bhi bhala

--
bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai
--


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai?

bhayee ......... is sher maiN do soorteN haiN mere hisaab se ..

oola maiN lafz "de ke" jo pesh aayeeN hai ... magar dono hi surat maiN... sher main kafi jhol hai ...

mujhe ek surat ye ki ... wafa ke badle main jafa "de kar" (after that...)
jaga tere andar "ye" imaan kyun hai ... ab yaha "ye" nahi khulaa ki .. ye imaan se aap kya kahna chahte haiN..
agar ye hai.. to mere khyaal se sher fir hi se kahna chahiye

doosri surat,,,

tune wafa ke badle mai jafa di... means aap jafa milne par bhi use imaan wala kah rahe hai.. ( ya tanz maar rahe hai ulte meaning k sath.... ki chal itna imaan to hai tujhme ki kuch na kuch diya)

to isme "de ke" lafz sahi nahi hai....

ek surat deta hun

sile meiN wafa ke jafa tune di jo ( wafa aur jafa lafz i think should be closed to each other)
Jagaa tere andar ye eemaan kyoon hai?

---



Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai?

bhayee ... khyaal pe aataa hun pahle... muflis ... ka chaak girebaan honaa kuch jyda hajam nahi hua... haan gareeb ki aisi halat ho sakti hai... par chak girebaan pagaloN ki nishani diwano ki nishani .. hoti hai...
so mujhe lagata hai mufil ki jagah diwana pagal ... hona chahiye

aur sher behr se bhi khariz hai ... kyun hai masood bhayee ne bata hi diyaa hai...

let me try

bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai

-----



Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?


bhayee .....
pahli baat jo jalayega wo sochega kyuN..sochega bhi to aap kaise kah sakte ho wo woch raha hai...aur kya soch raha hai...

hum kahte hai aap mere bare main kya sochte ho... yaha sochne ka matlab "rai" se hota hai..
magar aapne jo sochne ki baat kahi hai... wo sawaal soch wala sochna hai... use "rai" nahi hai ..like instant thinking ...

haan agar "bolta" ho sochta ki jagah to...
kah sakte they... jhooth kah raha hai... tanz maar raha hai.. parda daal raha hai...
par sochta hai.... pe mushkil hai kahna ..
girah bhi lagegi sher meiN

sochta ki jagah bolta kar do to kaam chalega ...

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?



Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai?

hmmm.... bhayee pahli bat .. shukriyaa mera takhalus aa gaya

ab sher dekhtaa huN ...

bhayee pahli baar to aisa laga tha ki ... aap invite kar rahe ho... aa turbat pe meri ... magar fir se dekha to .. khulaa
" aa kar " main aapne kar ko silent kar diya hai... aa turbat pe meri ...

waise ek surat de deta hun...

wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar ( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai


bas bhayee ... jo laga kah diyaa.... ye meri rai achi lage to le lena ... barna ... ignore kar dena ..
fir se ghazal ki surat meiN sher rakh ke de deta hun..


__________


bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai

sile meiN wafa ke jafa tune di jo
Jagaa tere andar ye eemaan kyoon hai

bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai

wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar
( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai


regards ........

Last edited by janumanu; 16th January 2013 at 04:49 AM..
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sameer'shaad'
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16th January 2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by janumanu View Post
bhayee socha do char bateN maiN bhi kah duN ... baaki baten apni jagah haiN... shayri apni jagah...
khair to dekhte hai... bahyee pahle bata dun... jin do logo ne pahle comment de diye hai unke baad comment dena ... badi himmat ka kaam hai... aur aisi himaat maiN hi kar sakta tha .. aur to koe nahi .. bas itna hi kahungaa ... wo jo kah deN maan lena.. maiN jo kahu ik baar soch lena ...
so zidd n masood bhayee .... MAy I ?

---


Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai?

bhayee... oolaa maiN "mujhe bhi" se kya muraad hai.. kisi aur se bhi poocha hai ya aur ne bhi bataya hai?
sher kacha padta sa laga yahi se mujhe
iski ek surat likh de raha hun...
bhalee lage to bhala ..nahi lage to bhi bhala

--
bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai
--


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai?

bhayee ......... is sher maiN do soorteN haiN mere hisaab se ..

oola maiN lafz "de ke" jo pesh aayeeN hai ... magar dono hi surat maiN... sher main kafi jhol hai ...

mujhe ek surat ye ki ... wafa ke badle main jafa "de kar" (after that...)
jaga tere andar "ye" imaan kyun hai ... ab yaha "ye" nahi khulaa ki .. ye imaan se aap kya kahna chahte haiN..
agar ye hai.. to mere khyaal se sher fir hi se kahna chahiye

doosri surat,,,

tune wafa ke badle mai jafa di... means aap jafa milne par bhi use imaan wala kah rahe hai.. ( ya tanz maar rahe hai ulte meaning k sath.... ki chal itna imaan to hai tujhme ki kuch na kuch diya)

to isme "de ke" lafz sahi nahi hai....

ek surat deta hun

sile meiN wafa ke jafa tune di jo ( wafa aur jafa lafz i think should be closed to each other)
Jagaa tere andar ye eemaan kyoon hai?

---



Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai?

bhayee ... khyaal pe aataa hun pahle... muflis ... ka chaak girebaan honaa kuch jyda hajam nahi hua... haan gareeb ki aisi halat ho sakti hai... par chak girebaan pagaloN ki nishani diwano ki nishani .. hoti hai...
so mujhe lagata hai mufil ki jagah diwana pagal ... hona chahiye

aur sher behr se bhi khariz hai ... kyun hai masood bhayee ne bata hi diyaa hai...

let me try

bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai

-----



Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?


bhayee .....
pahli baat jo jalayega wo sochega kyuN..sochega bhi to aap kaise kah sakte ho wo woch raha hai...aur kya soch raha hai...

hum kahte hai aap mere bare main kya sochte ho... yaha sochne ka matlab "rai" se hota hai..
magar aapne jo sochne ki baat kahi hai... wo sawaal soch wala sochna hai... use "rai" nahi hai ..like instant thinking ...

haan agar "bolta" ho sochta ki jagah to...
kah sakte they... jhooth kah raha hai... tanz maar raha hai.. parda daal raha hai...
par sochta hai.... pe mushkil hai kahna ..
girah bhi lagegi sher meiN

sochta ki jagah bolta kar do to kaam chalega ...

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?



Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai?

hmmm.... bhayee pahli bat .. shukriyaa mera takhalus aa gaya

ab sher dekhtaa huN ...

bhayee pahli baar to aisa laga tha ki ... aap invite kar rahe ho... aa turbat pe meri ... magar fir se dekha to .. khulaa
" aa kar " main aapne kar ko silent kar diya hai... aa turbat pe meri ...

waise ek surat de deta hun...

wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar ( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai


bas bhayee ... jo laga kah diyaa.... ye meri rai achi lage to le lena ... barna ... ignore kar dena ..
fir se ghazal ki surat meiN sher rakh ke de deta hun..


__________


bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai

sile meiN wafa ke jafa tune di jo
Jagaa tere andar ye eemaan kyoon hai

bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai

wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar
( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai


regards ........


ab chalte hain aapki ghazal ki taraf...

bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai


1) agar radeef hai "pashemaan kyuN hai" to kya "itna" aur "ab" hum qaafiyaa hain...

2) agar qaafiya lafz "pashemaan" hai aur radeef "kyon hai" to agle sher me "pashemaan" (constant qaafiya) eemaan me kaise tabdeel huaa...


bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai



ab mere hisaab se ye lagtaa hai ke kisi ko kuch banaana to bas uupar waale k kaam hai, lekin kisi insaan ki wajah se agar kuch huaa hai to wo hogaa "kar denaa"
aur lafz "paagal" is not exactly fits for pagalpan in love uske liye "Deewana"
lafz zyaada suitable hoga... kyon..

to sher agar kuch aisaa ho jaae...

wo kar ke Deewana khud'ii (khud hi) pooNchtaa hai,
huaa chaak teraa girebaan kyun hai...


waise agar shaayar ka asli kahayal dekhen...

Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,

Muflisi me bhi to kapde faT jaate hain saahab... kya kehte hain.


jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai


ab yahaan dekhiye, aapne kaafi mehnat ki us sher ko isme badalne me.. magar ek jagah chhook gaye...

Misra-e sani ko agar dekha jaae to..

ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai

jo ki ek sawaal hai....

ab oola dekhiye.....

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai

ab zaahir si baat hai gar ye sawaal hai to "bolta" lafz istemaal karna durust nahi hai...
haan agar aap chaahen to ise "Poochta" me tabdeel kar sakte hain...



wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar
( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai


mujhe is uljhe hue sher se behtar shaayar ka asli khayaal hi dusrustnazar aa raha hai.... muaaf kareN magar aapka misra sequence me nahi nazar aa pa raha hai...

Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai?


aur agar is sher ko dekhaa jaae to "Aa" lafz ka istemaal shaayar ne kaafi shayrana tareeqe se kiyaa hai.... aur misraa e saani to mahaz ek khyaaa hai us shakahs ka jo turbat pe aaya hai...

khair meri koi baat agar burii lagii ho to muaafi chahungaa... magar jo mujhe sahi laga wo maine bhi keh diyaa aur zaruri nahi ke main sahi hoon.....
(as usual ending lines)

Rab raakha......


Shaad...

Last edited by maikasH; 17th January 2013 at 06:44 PM..
   
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sameer'shaad'
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16th January 2013, 02:24 PM

ha ha ha..

its up to you...


Shaad...

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janumanu
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16th January 2013, 03:25 PM

My only intension was to help the writer on his request and on his written invitation ..

Thank you ..
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17th January 2013, 01:35 AM

MaiN mujeeb bhai ki baat se ittifaaq rakhta huN
Sher meiN rabt saaf nahi hai


andaaz
   
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janumanu
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17th January 2013, 05:40 AM

[QUOTE=sameer'shaad';446865]ab chalte hain aapki ghazal ki taraf...

bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai


1) agar radeef hai "pashemaan kyuN hai" to kya "itna" aur "ab" hum qaafiyaa hain...

2) agar qaafiya lafz "pashemaan" hai aur radeef "kyon hai" to agle sher me "pashemaan" (constant qaafiya) eemaan me kaise tabdeel huaa...

bhayee ... qafiyee pareshaan aur pashemaan hi hoga .... ye mujhse chook huee..
dono lafz ek se haiN... swabhik hai ye ghalti....

maine kahi koe qafiyaa change nahi kiyaa hai... zaroorat bhi nahi hai... qafiye sare durust haiN :P



theek hai ..


Last edited by maikasH; 17th January 2013 at 06:43 PM..
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17th January 2013, 02:02 PM

Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?
DISCLAIMER
Mai is sher par comment kar raha hu kyuki ispar discussion chal raha hai. Mai kisi ek shaks se mukhatib nahi ,yaha tak ki shayar se bhi nahi, in conformity to rights granted to me for this section as a common member of SDC . this reply is not intended as an advice but a mere opinion.


Mai is sher ke merits par nahi jaa raha k ye accha hai ya kitne degrees se accha hai.
Ya ye kharaab hai aur kitna kharaab hai.

Mere point of view se ye sher bilkul valid,correct hai , aur specifically koi rabt ka problem nahi hai ,ye mera limited point hai aur mera opinion maine kis basis par base kiya hai vo mai ab aaapke saamne rakhta hu.

1] sabse pahle, sirf aur sirf ‘cold logic’ hi se koi sher evaluate karna apne aap me ek anamoly hai.

Strict application of cold logic se bahut hi unique results nikal sakte hai ,jiski jaankari sabko kisi na kisi tarah to hai hi,
jaise ki cold logic use kare to apple ki beej ko todne se ,andar se ek apple nikalna chaiye, kyuki andar to logically apple hai? , nahi to apple kaha se nikla agar beej se nahi aaya to?

phir to , ‘kabr me leTa hai ya mara hai’ kahna hoga , kyuki ‘kabr me soya hai’ to kah hi nahi sakte kyuki zinda aadmi hi so sakta hai murda nahi,,,,,,magar aisi shayri to aam hai....??

Ab koi ye sawaal UThayega ki zidd bhai aap to non logic ko sabit karne ke liye logic hi ka sahara le rahe hai..

aur sawaal uthaane wala sahi hi hoga ...

to jawaab ye hai ki vo sahi hai phir bhi mai ye kar sakta hu ,kyuki mai ab daleel de raha hu shayri nahi kar raha hu.

Ab phir mere is jawaab se ye reitererate hota hai ki logic has limited applicability in shayri.

2] dusra point is sher ko direct impact karta hai

CHUTZPAh-is lafz ka English aur hindi me koi synonym nahi hai...so ise sirf example se bayaa kiya jaa sakta hai.

A] agar koi shaks apne maa-baap ka khoon( murder) kar de aur jab court sazaa sunaane jaaye ,to plead kare ki us par raham kiya jaaye kyuki vo ‘yateem’ hai ,to us action ko khutzpah kahte hai.

B] (aisi si kuch ye kahani hai)= anarkali ne saleem ka koi pasandeeda kabootar udaa diya...saleeem ne poocha ki kabootar kaise udaya ? to anarkali ne ek dusra kabootar jisko saleem sahib bahut like karte the ,uDaa kar dikha diya aur kahaa’ aise uDaya’.....

Ab in angles se us sher ko dekhiye... maine upar jo 2 point baya kiye sirf shayri ka ek nuance saamne lane ke liye kiya....jo cold logic ke application se dhak gaye.
----------------------------------------
Hum ko unse vafa ki hai ummeed
Jo nahi jante vafaa kya hai.......galib ( it is not a comparison sher to ahmad sahab sher.)

Is sher ko aaj ke daur me jo padta hai vo normally sani ka matlab derive karta hai( shayad bollywood ka influence hai)= ki ladki ek tart hai ek extreme view se,
aur agar koi lenient view rakhta hai to kahega ki ladki snob hai, jaankar qadr nahi kar rahi hai.
In general us misre ko satirical samjha jayega ,jaise galib sahib tana kas rahe the.
Magar
Scholars ne is misre ka ye view liya hi nahi .unko concept hi nahi ke mashuka ya supposed mashuka galat kar sakti hai.
Bekhud dehlavi aur nazm sahib(1900) ne comment kiya is sher par ke ladki abhi abhi jawaan hui hai, use pata hi nahi ke wafa kya hai...ladki ignorant hai because of her youth, uski koi galti nahi aut galib sahib bekaar hi aag me tape jaa rahe hai !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
ab vo sher fresh pada jaye,,,,saare possible nuances ko madde nazar rakhte huye.....to shayad aisa lagne lage ....ki akhir bholepan me ,gaflat me,ignorance me..ladki kuch harm kar baithi hai aur use pata nahi ke uske wajah se kya kya anjaam huaa,,,,,jab anjaam dekha to bholepan me pooch baithi ke'' haiy , aisa kyu ho gaya '"


regards

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17th January 2013, 05:52 PM

Aadaab wa Tasleemaat Bhaiyo-Behno, Buzurgo, Dosto,


Sabsay pahlay mayn ayk baat saaaf kerna chahoongaa jiski wajeh say bayhad ghalatfehmiyaan hogayeen hayn....


1. First and Foremost thing... mayn sab Ulama wa Fuzlaa say maazrat talab karoongaa apnee ghayr haazree kee... dar asal pichlay do haftaon say bayhad masroof tha... bas itna kahoonga I had only 4-4.5 Hours sleep each day and whatever time i had I posted small comments and could only manage to pm some of our azeez wa aqaarib. Mayn kitna baychayn raha aapsab ka shukriya ada karnay yay mayn aur mayra Rab he jaantaa haye. Is section mayn mujhay reply fursat aur khuloos say karna haye isliyay abhi tak jawaab nahee day paayaa. Mayree maroofyaat wa majbooriyaan maynay pahlay he bata deen theen Zainy behna iski gawaah hayn aur Muhtaram Maikah saahab ko bhi kuch andaaza hoga.


2. Buhat zarooree baat... maynay khud ilteja kee thee Vikaas bhaee say yahaan par apni tashreef laanay kay liyay pm ker. Aur unki faraaghdilee haye ki unhonay mayree baat ka paas rakha. Vikas bhaee aapko jo bhi ghalatfehmee huee haye aur uski wajah say jo tashnagee rahee is dauraan iskay liyay maazratkhwaah hoon.
3.Shaad bhaee mayn aapka bhe bayhad mashkoor wa mamnoon hoon. Aapko bhi jo ghalatfehmee huee mayree ghayrhazree say sukay liyay bhee bayhad sharminda hoon aur aapki maazrat ka taalib hoon.


4.The most importan point....Muhtaram Janab Mas'ood Hassaas Saahab, Maikash Saahab, Mujeeb Saahab, Zidd Saahab, Khshitiz Saahab, Vikas Sahab, Sameer Sahab, Zainy behna mayn aap sab ka jitna bhee shukr ada karoon buhat kam haye.. Tahay dil say aapsab ka Shukriya....aapsab kay liyay bayinteha duaayayn!


5. InshaAllah anqareeb mayn aapsab ka nuqta ba nuqta jawaab paysh karoonga bas thodee see aur maholat darkaar haye.


6. Sabsay aham baat yay haye kee Allah paak nay mayree sunlee aur mayn ayk maqsad mayn tou kaamyaab rahaa... ki ulamaa aayayn aur apnay ilm ki raoshnee say is bazm ko raoshan karayn... iska saboot oopar aapsab kay purnoor comments hayn. Islam mayn kahaa jaataa haye ki Ulama mayn na-iteefaaqEE ummat kay liyay rahmat haye... kyunkee jo bahas hotee haye uskay sabab ummat kay ilm mayn izaafaa hotaa haye. Oopar aapsab daykh saktay hayn kitnay kitnay pahloo seekhnay ko mil chukay hayn sirf is ayk koshish per.



InshaAllah aapsab say jald hee rabta hoga




Duagoh
Ahmad

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17th January 2013, 07:55 PM

Jala ke ye gulshan mera sochta haiN
ye jhulsa hua sa biyabaan kyhairedred

YahaaN pehla misra agar yuN hota ki ..

Jala ke vo gulshan mera sochta hai .. to shaayad zyada saaf rahta kyu ki pata hi nahi chal raha ki ye gulshan mera kuch jala raha hai ... yaa ..... ye mera gulshan jala raha hai ..are bhai ye kaun hai jo gulshan jala raha hai iska taaruf bhi to sher meiN hona chahiye

To agar ye ki jagah vo hota to shayad zyada saaf hota kyuN ki amoonan vo se matlab dil se door logoN ka nikaal lete khair ..

Ye sirf ek nazariya hai...... kisi ka kuch aur bhi ho sakta hai


andaaz

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17th January 2013, 09:17 PM

are bhai ye kaun hai jo gulshan jala raha hai iska taaruf bhi to sher meiN hona chahiye

kshitij sahab aadaab...kya subject ka sher me rahna essential hai?

'taa phir na intezaar me neend aayi umr bhar
aane ka ah'd kar gaye ,aaye jo khwaab me.......
........
........kaun?....

agar chacha chahte to badi aasaani se 'vo' fit kar dete yani ki 'cause' daal dete ,yani 'subject' ko omit nahi karte.
ahmad sahab ke sher ne theek yehi hatkanda apnaya..mere khayaal se ahmad sahab ne deliberately subject omit kiya hai jaisa ki is sher me chacha ne kiya....subject ko omit karne se rumaniyat baD gayi sher ki.

yaha 'vo' ka isharah gulshan ki taraf nahi hai.subject ki taraf hai....kyuki aitraaz gulshan ke identification par nahi, kisi 'kaun' par hai..

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17th January 2013, 10:28 PM

Zidd saaheb adaab
aapki baat bilkul sahi hai ki subject ka hona koi zaroori nahi par ...
yahaaN to shayar ne khud hi subject daal diya gulshan se pehle ye laga ke..

Ab yahaaN uljhan ye phaNsti hai ki gulshan se pehle ye laga hai to ye gulshan jala hai ya ye ne gulshan ko jalaya hai ..

Aur maiN ye koi nuks nahi nikaal raha .. mera kahne ka sirf itna maqsad hai ki jo sher diya gaya vo kuch aur saaf ho sakta tha


andaaz

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17th January 2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:
Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?


Mere point of view se ye sher bilkul valid,correct hai , aur specifically koi rabt ka problem nahi hai ,ye mera limited point hai aur mera opinion maine kis basis par base kiya hai vo mai ab aaapke saamne rakhta hu.

1] sabse pahle, sirf aur sirf ‘cold logic’ hi se koi sher evaluate karna apne aap me ek anamoly hai.

Strict application of cold logic se bahut hi unique results nikal sakte hai ,jiski jaankari sabko kisi na kisi tarah to hai hi,
jaise ki cold logic use kare to apple ki beej ko todne se ,andar se ek apple nikalna chaiye, kyuki andar to logically apple hai? , nahi to apple kaha se nikla agar beej se nahi aaya to?
Aadaab !
zidd saHb , mera yahaN HaaZ^ir hona na to appko ghalat Thehraana hai or na hi ahmed SaHb ko , mager apny nuQtaa e nazar (point of view) ko bayaan kerna mujhy thoRa sa Z^arooree laga , aur phir is maiN QabaHat hi kiya hai ?

maiN appse ma'zrat chahoN ga ager meree koee bhee baat zaraa see bhee buree lagee hoo .

Quote:
phir to , ‘kabr me leTa hai ya mara hai’ kahna hoga , kyuki ‘kabr me soya hai’ to kah hi nahi sakte kyuki zinda aadmi hi so sakta hai murda nahi,,,,,,magar aisi shayri to aam hai....??
qabr mai laiTa hai sooya hai yeh kehna qabil e qabool hai . kiyoNke mai khud bhi aik musalman hoN is liye is baat ki taa'eed ker raha hoN ke . hamara (muslims ka) yaqeen hai keh hum is dunya mai farZ^ee zindagee jee rahy haiN aSal zindagee marny ke baad hai jo laa faanee hai aur hamesha ke liye rahy gee . jannat mai ya phir jahanum mai (wo aik alag baat hai) . so qabar mai is liye laitaa ya soo raha hai kiyoN ke aik din phir uThaaya jaaey ga sab ko or unka Hisaab kitaab ho ga .

yeh meree sabhee dostoN se mu'adibaanaa iltejaa (humble request) hai ke meree oper darj kee gai baat per koi beHc na karieN takeh yahaN phir se koee mazhabi ikhtalfaat ya beHc shuru na ho jaaieN , is se phir maHool kharaab ho sakta hai .

Quote:
Ab koi ye sawaal UThayega ki zidd bhai aap to non logic ko sabit karne ke liye logic hi ka sahara le rahe hai..

aur sawaal uthaane wala sahi hi hoga ...

to jawaab ye hai ki vo sahi hai phir bhi mai ye kar sakta hu ,kyuki mai ab daleel de raha hu shayri nahi kar raha hu.
aapki opper waali baat per apnee naqiS raaey to day chuka hoN baaqee qist aagaey mulaHiza fermaaieN .

Quote:
Hum ko unse vafa ki hai ummeed
Jo nahi jante vafaa kya hai.......galib ( it is not a comparison sher to ahmad sahab sher.)

Is sher ko aaj ke daur me jo padta hai vo normally sani ka matlab derive karta hai( shayad bollywood ka influence hai)= ki ladki ek tart hai ek extreme view se,
aur agar koi lenient view rakhta hai to kahega ki ladki snob hai, jaankar qadr nahi kar rahi hai.
In general us misre ko satirical samjha jayega ,jaise galib sahib tana kas rahe the.
Magar
Scholars ne is misre ka ye view liya hi nahi .unko concept hi nahi ke mashuka ya supposed mashuka galat kar sakti hai.
Bekhud dehlavi aur nazm sahib(1900) ne comment kiya is sher par ke ladki abhi abhi jawaan hui hai, use pata hi nahi ke wafa kya hai...ladki ignorant hai because of her youth, uski koi galti nahi aut galib sahib bekaar hi aag me tape jaa rahe hai !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smajhny waaly ko iKhtiyaar hai woh jaisy bhi samjhny , mager yahaN Ghalib saHb ne lerki ya jin per unhoN ne kaha unko qaSoor waar nahi thehraaya . balkeh apny baary maiN keh rahy haiN ke unhoN ne wafaa ki umeed un shakhS ya aurat se lagaaee hai jinhaiN wafa kiya cheez hai pata bhi nahi hai .

or yahaN faae'l (umeed kerny waaly) khud Ghalib saHb hai na keh jinse unko umeed hai . to mafo'ool (jin se umeed lagaee gai ) innocent hai bekhabar hai ke GHalib saHb kuch umeed ya aas laga rahy haiN ( aur jo umeed laga rahy haiN wo kiya balaa hai )


Quote:
ab vo sher fresh pada jaye,,,,saare possible nuances ko madde nazar rakhte huye.....to shayad aisa lagne lage ....ki akhir bholepan me ,gaflat me,ignorance me..ladki kuch harm kar baithi hai aur use pata nahi ke uske wajah se kya kya anjaam huaa,,,,,jab anjaam dekha to bholepan me pooch baithi ke'' haiy , aisa kyu ho gaya '"
ab chalty haiN aHmad saHb ke us she'r ki taraf jis per mujhy aitraaz to nahi tha mager aik sawal zaroor tha . khair ...

Quote:
Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?
soochny ka a'mal sirf usi aik insaan tak meHdood hota hai . mai kiya sooch rha hoN app nahi jaanty or app kiya sooch rahy haiN maiN nahi jaanta . hum dono aik hi baat per sooch rahy haiN . mager kiyaa sooch rahy haiN hamary e'lawa koi nahi jaanta . so apny app se apni baat to chupi huwi nahi hoti .

ab jaisa she'r mai zikr hai ke "jalaakay" to yahaN aisa lag raha hai keh jalaany waala bakhabar hai bekhabar nahi .

koi bhi shaKhS ager self defense mai bhi qatl kary to usko itna to pata ho ga hi ke qatl ho gaya aur kaisy huwa . ab jaisa maiN ne opper zikr kiya hai ke soochny ka a'mal sirf insaan ke khud tak meHdood hota hai to is Hisaab se qatl kerny waala ya jalaany wala bakhabar zaroor hai keh huwa kiya hai . nadaani mai jalaaya ya jaan bojh ker ultimately pata to hai na ke jalany se gulshan jhulas jaata hai

ya phir aik baat aur mumkin hai ke jalaany waala itna hi ma'soom hai ke aag lagany ke baad soochta hai yeh jal kiyoN raha hai


ager appko ab bhi lagta hai ke meraa sawaal be bunyaad hai to Huzoor appko baaqaaidaa poora haq hai mere sawal ko rad (neglect) kar daiN .

opper bayaaN ki gai meree sabhi baatieN Sirf or Sirf mera apna zaati khayaal hai . mera maqSad kisi ko thes , ranj pahunchaana qat'ee nahieN tha or na hi hai . ager anjaany mai mujhse bhool ho bhi gayee ho to ma'zrat khuwaa hoN .

t^alib e E'lm
Mujeeb


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17th January 2013, 11:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Mujeeb View Post
Aadaab !
zidd saHb , mera yahaN HaaZ^ir hona na to appko ghalat Thehraana hai or na hi ahmed SaHb ko , mager apny nuQtaa e nazar (point of view) ko bayaan kerna mujhy thoRa sa Z^arooree laga , aur phir is maiN QabaHat hi kiya hai ?

maiN appse ma'zrat chahoN ga ager meree koee bhee baat zaraa see bhee buree lagee hoo .



qabr mai laiTa hai sooya hai yeh kehna qabil e qabool hai . kiyoNke mai khud bhi aik musalman hoN is liye is baat ki taa'eed ker raha hoN ke . hamara (muslims ka) yaqeen hai keh hum is dunya mai farZ^ee zindagee jee rahy haiN aSal zindagee marny ke baad hai jo laa faanee hai aur hamesha ke liye rahy gee . jannat mai ya phir jahanum mai (wo aik alag baat hai) . so qabar mai is liye laitaa ya soo raha hai kiyoN ke aik din phir uThaaya jaaey ga sab ko or unka Hisaab kitaab ho ga .

yeh meree sabhee dostoN se mu'adibaanaa iltejaa (humble request) hai ke meree oper darj kee gai baat per koi beHc na karieN takeh yahaN phir se koee mazhabi ikhtalfaat ya beHc shuru na ho jaaieN , is se phir maHool kharaab ho sakta hai .



aapki opper waali baat per apnee naqiS raaey to day chuka hoN baaqee qist aagaey mulaHiza fermaaieN .




smajhny waaly ko iKhtiyaar hai woh jaisy bhi samjhny , mager yahaN Ghalib saHb ne lerki ya jin per unhoN ne kaha unko qaSoor waar nahi thehraaya . balkeh apny baary maiN keh rahy haiN ke unhoN ne wafaa ki umeed un shakhS ya aurat se lagaaee hai jinhaiN wafa kiya cheez hai pata bhi nahi hai .

or yahaN faae'l (umeed kerny waaly) khud Ghalib saHb hai na keh jinse unko umeed hai . to mafo'ool (jin se umeed lagaee gai ) innocent hai bekhabar hai ke GHalib saHb kuch umeed ya aas laga rahy haiN ( aur jo umeed laga rahy haiN wo kiya balaa hai )




ab chalty haiN aHmad saHb ke us she'r ki taraf jis per mujhy aitraaz to nahi tha mager aik sawal zaroor tha . khair ...



soochny ka a'mal sirf usi aik insaan tak meHdood hota hai . mai kiya sooch rha hoN app nahi jaanty or app kiya sooch rahy haiN maiN nahi jaanta . hum dono aik hi baat per sooch rahy haiN . mager kiyaa sooch rahy haiN hamary e'lawa koi nahi jaanta . so apny app se apni baat to chupi huwi nahi hoti .

ab jaisa she'r mai zikr hai ke "jalaakay" to yahaN aisa lag raha hai keh jalaany waala bakhabar hai bekhabar nahi .

koi bhi shaKhS ager self defense mai bhi qatl kary to usko itna to pata ho ga hi ke qatl ho gaya aur kaisy huwa . ab jaisa maiN ne opper zikr kiya hai ke soochny ka a'mal sirf insaan ke khud tak meHdood hota hai to is Hisaab se qatl kerny waala ya jalaany wala bakhabar zaroor hai keh huwa kiya hai . nadaani mai jalaaya ya jaan bojh ker ultimately pata to hai na ke jalany se gulshan jhulas jaata hai

ya phir aik baat aur mumkin hai ke jalaany waala itna hi ma'soom hai ke aag lagany ke baad soochta hai yeh jal kiyoN raha hai


ager appko ab bhi lagta hai ke meraa sawaal be bunyaad hai to Huzoor appko baaqaaidaa poora haq hai mere sawal ko rad (neglect) kar daiN .

opper bayaaN ki gai meree sabhi baatieN Sirf or Sirf mera apna zaati khayaal hai . mera maqSad kisi ko thes , ranj pahunchaana qat'ee nahieN tha or na hi hai . ager anjaany mai mujhse bhool ho bhi gayee ho to ma'zrat khuwaa hoN .

t^alib e E'lm
Mujeeb
Mujeeb bhayee aapka khat padhaa... acha bhi laga ...
ek sawaal hai.. aap chahe to ignore kar sate hai.. aapko bura lage to bhi bata deN.. maiN muaafi maang lungaa ...

aapne jo khat likha ... haalnki jabaab zidd bhayee ko hai... magar taaluk .. shayer se ya uski gahzal hi se hai ... to phir isse shayr ko kya faaiyda yaa uski gahzal ya uske sher ko... kyuN sher to wahiN hai jahan tha
ya maiN nahi samjh pa raha huN..


regards
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18th January 2013, 04:18 AM

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Originally Posted by janumanu View Post
Mujeeb bhayee aapka khat padhaa... acha bhi laga ...
ek sawaal hai.. aap chahe to ignore kar sate hai.. aapko bura lage to bhi bata deN.. maiN muaafi maang lungaa ...

aapne jo khat likha ... haalnki jabaab zidd bhayee ko hai... magar taaluk .. shayer se ya uski gahzal hi se hai ... to phir isse shayr ko kya faaiyda yaa uski gahzal ya uske sher ko... kyuN sher to wahiN hai jahan tha
ya maiN nahi samjh pa raha huN..


regards
Aadaab !
moHteram , jaisa ke maiN ne appne pehly hi Khat^ mai a'rZ kiya tha ke mai iSlaaH ke qabil nahi hoN . or jo sawal mere zehn mai aaya us per mukamal wizaHat bhi ker di . shaa'ir ko faaida na sahi per nuqSaan bhi to koi naheeN hai . aur aik baat a'rZ kerta chaloN keh yahaN "soochta" ko "poochta" mai badal dainy se mafhoom waZeH ho sakta hai keh jalaany ke baad woh frebi adaa se pooch raha hai keh yeh jhulsa huwa kiyoN hai . baaqi shaa'ir per munHaSir hai jo iski jaisy rado badal kary.

aur dosri baat yahaN batata chaloN ke her insaan ki apni sooch or alfaaz ka zaKheerah apna apna hota hai akCer auqaat dekhny mai yeh aata hai keh iSlaaH kerny waala itna rad o badal ker daita hai keh she'r ya ghazal ki aSal Halat barqarar hi naheeN rehti , or aisa bhi hota hai keh iSlaaH kerny walaa is qadar alfaaz^on ko shaa'ir ke nazriyah ke ain mut^tabiq joRta hai ke khud shaa'ir jo chaahta hai . or ghazal ya she'r mai nikhar aa jaata hai.

mai un logoN mai shumaar hota hoN jo she'r ya ghazal ki Halat hi kharab ker daity haiN is liye saHb aisi HamaqatoN se ab ijtenaab kerna behter smajhta hoN ke bajay saHeeH kerny ke maiN shaa'ir ki dil azaari hi na ker baiThoN


kshitiz ki baat se mutafiq hoN isi liye aik Soorat bata raha hoN.

Jala ke vo gulshan mera poochtaa hai
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?

baaQi shaa'ir kee apnee merzee is jis tereH chahieN alfaz mai rado badal kar daiN . bataee huwee Sorat per itefaaq kerny kee koee pabandee naheeN hai.


kisi ki bhi dil azaari ke liye ma'zrat khuwa hoN


kuch kahoN to sharm saar hoN
chup rahoN to guneh gaar hoN
   
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janumanu
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18th January 2013, 07:40 AM

shaad sahab ... chaliye aapko aapke prashno ka uttar de deta huN

--


bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai



ab mere hisaab se ye lagtaa hai ke kisi ko kuch banaana to bas uupar waale k kaam hai, lekin kisi insaan ki wajah se agar kuch huaa hai to wo hogaa "kar denaa"

bhayee....

sher suno ..

jabse tune mujhe diwaanaa BANA rakha hai
sang har saksh ne hatho meiN utha rakha hai

har kaam uparwale pe nahi daaale jate bhayee

punjabi mei kahte hai
"tenni banda banaa deu"



aur lafz "paagal" is not exactly fits for pagalpan in love uske liye "Deewana"
lafz zyaada suitable hoga... kyon..

bhayee aur sher suno ...........

Woh kaisi pagal ladki thi ...
sung by GHulaam ali sahab ...


to sher agar kuch aisaa ho jaae...

agar sher aisa hoga to be-behr hoga

wo kar ke Deewana khud'ii (khud hi) pooNchtaa hai,
huaa chaak teraa girebaan kyun hai...

deewaanaa... 22X ... ise di ki sound girana khatre se khaali nahi... isliye maine b nahi girayee thi ..


waise agar shaayar ka asli kahayal dekhen...

Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,

Muflisi me bhi to kapde faT jaate hain saahab... kya kehte hain.

bhayee kapde to bahut kaam meiN faT jate haiN ...

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai


ab yahaan dekhiye, aapne kaafi mehnat ki us sher ko isme badalne me.. magar ek jagah chhook gaye...

Misra-e sani ko agar dekha jaae to..

ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai

jo ki ek sawaal hai....

sawaal hai to hai hi maine kab mana kiyaa sawaal nahi hai... ab yahaN hum kaise chooke ... plzz bata deN

maine usne aur kuch bhi change kiyaa hai uspe bhi dhyaan deN


ab oola dekhiye.....

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai

ab zaahir si baat hai gar ye sawaal hai to "bolta" lafz istemaal karna durust nahi hai...
haan agar aap chaahen to ise "Poochta" me tabdeel kar sakte hain...

hmm poochtaa lafz jyda sahi hai... magar boltaa ghalat kaise hai?
aap agar ye kah rahe hai ye sawaal hai... to sawaal "kyun hai" se saaf hai



wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar
( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai


mujhe is uljhe hue sher se behtar shaayar ka asli khayaal hi dusrustnazar aa raha hai.... muaaf kareN magar aapka misra sequence me nahi nazar aa pa raha hai...

Please bataye isme kya uljhan nazar aaayee aapko... aapki har uljhan ka badal hata denge janaab

Last edited by maikasH; 18th January 2013 at 09:08 AM..
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18th January 2013, 12:52 PM

Quote:
wo kar ke Deewana khud'ii (khud hi) pooNchtaa hai,
huaa chaak teraa girebaan kyun hai...

deewaanaa... 22X ... ise di ki sound girana khatre se khaali nahi... isliye maine b nahi girayee thi ..
1] vikas sahab , deewaana ka 'di' chota ho sakta hai...iski bahot strong misaal hai

ameer kazalbash
zindagii tujh ko manaane nikle
ham bhi kis darja diivaane nikle


kuch to dushman the mukhaalif saf me
kuch mere dost puraane nikle


2] prima facie aitraaz 'khudi' par ho sakta hai, kyuki lafz 'khud hi' hai, iska vasl nahi ho sakta ,waise bhi scannning ke liye 'khud hi' ko 'khudi'(ego,self respect) kar den to meaning change ho raha hai...yaha zara muamla doubtful hai.....

regards
   
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18th January 2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
1] vikas sahab , deewaana ka 'di' chota ho sakta hai...iski bahot strong misaal hai

ameer kazalbash
zindagii tujh ko manaane nikle
ham bhi kis darja diivaane nikle


kuch to dushman the mukhaalif saf me
kuch mere dost puraane nikle


2] prima facie aitraaz 'khudi' par ho sakta hai, kyuki lafz 'khud hi' hai, iska vasl nahi ho sakta ,waise bhi scannning ke liye 'khud hi' ko 'khudi'(ego,self respect) kar den to meaning change ho raha hai...yaha zara muamla doubtful hai.....

regards
accepted ..
par kya kya deewana main di ki awaaz girayee gayee hai ?
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19th January 2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by janumanu View Post
accepted ..
par kya kya deewana main di ki awaaz girayee gayee hai ?
bhai, koi aur poochata to samjh aata...aap pooch rahe ho yaar?
itna saaf to hai....manaana-divaane-puraane , bold me kaha to hai.

2122 1122 22-faa i laa tun / fa i laa tun / fou lun

aap use 'bina' ke 'bi' ki tarah 'di' kahiye 'veena' ke 'vee' ki tarah nahi.

( for beginners kindly note that -' faa i laa tun/ faa i laatun ' se meter baya karo ya 2122 2122 se
BAAT EK HI HAI.... THERE IS NOT AN IOTA OF DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO.

digit me meter samajne aur baya karne me koi demerit nahi hai....on the contrary it is less prone to typo errors. waise bhi aaj ke naujawaan digit ki zabaan jyada behtar aur turunt samjhte hai.
mai sirf meter bayaa karne ki limited baat kar raha hu.

Last edited by zidd; 19th January 2013 at 11:20 AM..
   
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19th January 2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
bhai, koi aur poochata to samjh aata...aap pooch rahe ho yaar?
itna saaf to hai....manaana-divaane-puraane , bold me kaha to hai.

2122 1122 22-faa i laa tun / fa i laa tun / fou lun

( for beginners kindly note that -' faa i laa tun/ faa i laatun ' se meter baya karo ya 2122 2122 se
BAAT EK HI HAI.... THERE IS NOT AN IOTA OF DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO.

digit me meter samajne aur baya karne me koi demerit nahi hai....on the contrary it is less prone to typo errors. waise bhi aaj ke naujawaan digit ki zabaan jyada behtar aur turunt samjhte hai.
mai sirf meter bayaa karne ki limited baat kar raha hu.
bhayee mera sawaal aur kuch tha khair....

Meri ghazal pe bhi to baat karo..
Yaha hum aise hi lage hain... Koe poochne wala hi nahi
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19th January 2013, 11:30 AM

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Originally Posted by janumanu View Post
bhayee mera sawaal aur kuch tha khair....

Meri ghazal pe bhi to baat karo..
Yaha hum aise hi lage hain... Koe poochne wala hi nahi
aapka sawaal dusri tarah se phrase kijiye phir......
   
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19th January 2013, 11:32 AM

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aapka sawaal dusri tarah se phrase kijiye phir......
asl lafz ..
Diwaana hai
Ya

Deeeewaana
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sameer'shaad'
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19th January 2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
bhai, koi aur poochata to samjh aata...aap pooch rahe ho yaar?
itna saaf to hai....manaana-divaane-puraane , bold me kaha to hai.

2122 1122 22-faa i laa tun / fa i laa tun / fou lun

aap use 'bina' ke 'bi' ki tarah 'di' kahiye 'veena' ke 'vee' ki tarah nahi.

( for beginners kindly note that -' faa i laa tun/ faa i laatun ' se meter baya karo ya 2122 2122 se
BAAT EK HI HAI.... THERE IS NOT AN IOTA OF DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO.

digit me meter samajne aur baya karne me koi demerit nahi hai....on the contrary it is less prone to typo errors. waise bhi aaj ke naujawaan digit ki zabaan jyada behtar aur turunt samjhte hai.
mai sirf meter bayaa karne ki limited baat kar raha hu.

Aadaab zidd saab...

ummeed karta hoon kahiriyat se honge... aapka reply dekh kar accha lagaa... lagaa ke koi patthar ki lakeer ki tarah hi baten nahi kartaa... kuch cheezen tabdeel bhi ki jaa saktii hain... jaise ke maana ke asal lafz dee2wa2naX hai, magar use shaayar kabhi kabhi di1waa2na2 ki tarah bhi istemaal kar saktaa hai use poori choot hai is baat ki...

aapne sonu nigaam ka bhi ek gaana suna hogaa...

Diwaana teraa.... tujhe hi bulaa.... etc..

khair iske alawa maine ye bhi kehna chahunga ke lafz "Baadal" ke bhi kai form ho sakte hain, jaise badariyaa, badlee etc...

koi ye nahi keh saktaa hai ke badariyaa istemaal me ghalat hai..

examples:

chhaayee karee badariya bairaniya ho ram
ghan badara gaganava jhukan lagee ho
more sajana bidesiya ko na aaye ho
chhaayee karee badariya

--------------------------------------------

jhuki aai re badariya saawan ki -2

saawan ki manabhaawan ki -2
jhuki aai re badariya saawan ki

etc....


waise aapki ek line maine uupar quote ki hai... usse ye to saaf samajh aa raha hai ke naujawaano se ishaara hum bacchoN par hai...

magar ye samajh me aa gaya ke aap ke liye nahi thi ye line Zidd uncle... hehehhee

gile shiqve muaafi.... yoonhi aapse thoda mazaaq kar liyaa...

Shaad...


Shaad...
   
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19th January 2013, 12:36 PM

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asl lafz ..
Diwaana hai
Ya

Deeeewaana
waiting for reply ....

...............
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19th January 2013, 12:45 PM

shaad bhai...11 saal ka baccha 17 saal ke baalig ko uncle kahta ...kyu?

aaj kal se muraad hai jisne digital age ke pahle ka daur dekha hi nahi hai...(magar aapko ye baat mai kyu samjha raha hu?)

---------------------------------------------------------
rahi baat 'badariya' ki, to kya problem hai? sahi to hai?...chalan me bhi hai...(kuch baat samjh nahi aayi)
   
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19th January 2013, 12:47 PM

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waiting for reply ....

...............
aap samjh lijiye ki dono hai
dono chalan me hai aur dono ka ek hi matlab hai.
   
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19th January 2013, 12:48 PM

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aap samjh lijiye ki dono hai
dono chalan me hai aur dono ka ek hi matlab hai.
shaayad main apne example se yahi samjhana chaha raha tha...........

as a confirmation... well thankss...

Shaad...


Shaad...
   
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21st January 2013, 05:42 PM

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aadaab Ahmad bhai,

maine Masood Hassas bhai se darkhuvaast ki thi ke voh aapki is kaavish par tabsira kareiN, unhone mujhe yeh khat bheja hai kyoNke unke wahaaN se post nahiiN ho paa raha tha

yeh raha unka khat :

Tasleemaat MaiksH bhaee, Mas'ood Bhaee!

Sabsay pahlay MaikasH jee aapka aur Mas'ood bhaee dono ka ayk baar phir say dili shukriya adaa kerna chahoonga aur saath he maazrat bhee talab karoonga apni takheer e adaygee e shukr ki. Mas'ood Bhaee aapkee aalazarfee haye jo aapnay itni koshish kee jawaab mujh tak pahunchaanay kee ki directly post na kar sakay tab bhee MaikasH sahab kay zariyay apnee bayshqeemtee islaah ataa kee... bayhad mamnoon wa mashkoor hoon aap dono ka!



AADAAB

Jalaa kar khoon e dil hi she’r likhta hai koyi shaayir
Jo haq bhar daad na paaye bade takleef hoti hai


Jahaan tak mujhe yaad aa raha hai ye sher achaanak meri zabaan se us waqt nikla tha jab main delhi me vikas zidd bhai lucky and kunal ke saath baitha huwa tha aor aaj jab sdc pe aana huwa to wahi sher yaad aa gaya

Ji haan sher dil se kaha jata hai aor daad na milne pe takleef hona laazmi hai magar us ke kuchh osool hain agar un ka paalan kiya jaaye to daad zaroor mile gi

Khaas taour pe GHAZAL ka apna osool hai us ko saamne rakh ke agar kalaam kaha gaya hai tab to ghazal hai warna wo GHAZAL nahi hai

Is khulaasey ke baad aata hun aap ki ghazal pe



Mayn aapki oopar di gayee har baat say poori terha muttafiq hoon aur isko tasleem kerta hoon! Buhat buhat shukriya aapka Bhaee!

Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai


Bahot achhey khoobsoorat sher hai


Zahenaseeb! Aadaab janaab! Buhat buhat shukriya aapka!

Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai


Theek laayeq e daad

Zarranawazee haye aapkee janaab! Dili shukriyaa inaayat ka!

Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai


Ab dekhiye yahaan aap BAHR se bhatak gaye …..khaas taour pe doosra misra aap ka wazn me nahi kiun ki aap ka wazn hai

122—122—122-122

Doosra misra is pe dekhiye to aap ko ehsaas ho jaaye ga ki aap se kiya ghalati huyi hai

JazaakAllahi khair bhaee!


Doosra misra is pe dekhiye to aap ko ehsaas ho jaaye ga ki aap se kiya ghalati huyi hai


Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai


Theek achha sher

Bayhad mashkoor hoon janaab aapki nazr e inayat ka!

Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai


Ek baat ka dheyaan den …HAR WO ALIF JIS PE ***MADD*** ( AAM AAS AAP ) AA JAAYE WO KABHI BHI NAHI GIR SAKTAA

Aor aap ne AA ko 1 le liya hai is liye yahaan bhi aap ko dekhnaa hogaa

Doosrey sher me aap ne lafz BASEYRAA istemaal kiya hai

Ab ye bataa dun ki har lafz ki eyk HAQEEQAT O MAAHIYAT / MANA AAFREENI hoti hai usi ke liye us ka istemaal ho sakta hai jab jab MANA aafreeni me jhol aaye gaa sher apni HASIYAT kho de ga

Aap dekhiye ki BASEYRAA ki jagah to Viraan ho sakti hai khud Baseyraa nahi..

Is liye yahaan bhi nazr e saani ki haajat hai

Aap ki taqtee ke liye eyk osool bataa deta hun ye sirf aap ke liye hi nahi balki sdc pe tamaam visit karne waaloN ke kaam aaye gi

Koi bhi lafz ki sirf 2 haalat hoto hai ..ki us ke HARF yaa to akele hain yaa kisi se mile hain ..micaal ke taour pe NIGAHBAAN me noon kisi se nahi milaa hai us ke baad GAAF hai jo ki apne baad aane waale HAA se milaa hai jo akela ho gaa wo 1 mana jaaye gaa jo kisi se mila hogaa wo 2 tasleem hogaa

Ni1 ----gah2----- baa2 ------n1

Noon ke zer thaa aor kisi se mila nahi tha to 1 huwa jab ki GAAF apne baad aane waale HAA se milaa thaa to 2 huwaa us ke baad BAA hai jo apne baad aane waale ALIF se mila hai to zaahir hai 2 hogaa akheer me NOON hai jo kisi se nahi milaa hai to 1 hi hogaa

Is tarah

Ni1 ----gah2 ----baa2----n1

Ho gaya

Agar kisi saahab ko ye samajh me na aaya ho to wo koi bhi LAFZ le ke us ke bare me pooch saktey hain


Yaqeen kijiye agar aap ko ye 1-2 karna aa gaya to aap kisi aor ke muhtaaj na hongey balki khud apne kalaam ki BAHR ko saheeh kar saktey hain

Aaapnay jo khaamiyaaon ki nishaandayhee kee haye iskay liyay mayn aapka bayhad mashkoor wa mamnoon hoon... mayn aaapki dono baataaon ko tasleem kerta hoon.

Dar'asal yay ayk mayree puranee kaavish haye.. originally written and posted in early december 2011, jab mayn shayree ki dunya mayn Tifl e maktab thaa(jo ki aaj bhi hoon) bas kuch sudhaar mahsoos karta hoon apni kaavishaon mayn..mujhay yaad haye is kaavish ki takmeel mayn mahaz ayk ghantay say bhee kam ka waqfa laga thaa aur jaysay taysay post kar dee thee.. aur mayra maqsad is kaavish ko yahaan islaahee raoshnee mayn laanay ka yahee thaa ki mayn jaantaa thaa ki ismayn kaafee sudhaar kee gunjaaish haye aur ismayn kaee qaamiyaan hayn... ba'z mujhay samjah aa raheen theen ba'z nahee... ba'z seedha seedha wazn o bahr say mutalliq theen ba'z adaygee wa bayanee say.. aap sab kay saamnay laa bayhad faydaa hua aur khaaksaar kay ilm mayn bayshak badee taraqqee huee.. Aapsab ka tahay dil say mashkoor wa mamnoon hoon!

Tawajjoh se parhne ke liye shukriya

Masoodhassaas Kuwait
Janaab Masood Saahab... mayree bechaynee aur zaatee majbooriyaa mayn lafzon mayn bayaan nahee kar sakta... ki kisi nay mayray liyay apna itna waqt nikaala ho aur mayn ik nashukray insaan ki maanind jald shukr adaa nahee ker saka aur ik goongay ki maanind chaah ker bhi kuch bol na saka... yahee kaifiyat mayree doosray bhaiyaon ki islaahi aara ko daykh bhee rahee haye un sab ka bhee mayn maazratkhwaah hoon! Thank You Sooo Much Everyone once gain!



Duagoh
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21st January 2013, 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujeeb View Post
Aadaab Ahmad SaHb !
na to maiN iShlaaH kerny laaiq hoN or na hi koi ai'traaZ hai mujhy appke kalaam per mager ik sawal aaya mere zehn mai soocha pooch loN .


jahaN tak meri naqis e'lmi hai to gulshan ko jalany waaly ko itna e'lm to hoga hi hai keh us ne kya kiya phir jalaany waala yeh kaisy sooch sakta hai keh yeh jala huwa kiyoN hai ???

albta woh yeh zaahir zaroor ker sakta hai ke usko pata nahi hai .

zaahir kerny mai or soochny mai farq hoota hai . mujhy jitna smajh thi mai ne utna pooch liya yaqeenan mai ghalat ho sakta hoN is maiN koi shak nahi hai mager appki thoRi si viZaHat se mujh t^alib e e'lm ko bahut kuch seekhny ko mil jaaey ga
AsSalamAlykum Mujeeb Bhaee! Khushaamdeed! Bayhad mashkoor hoon aapkay khuloos wa fikr ka... aapka suaal sau feesad sahee haye.. ki soachnay walay kay ilaawa kisi aur ko kaysay pataa chal sakta haye ki wo kya soach rahaa haye... aapka nazariya sau feesad sahee haye aur yay haqeeqat bhee..


Aaapkay suaal mayray suaal numbar 2 say seedhaa taalluq rakhta haye... ki yay 'kaavish' kya haye.. Ghazal ya Nazm?
Aap agar pahlay shayr par ghaur farmaayayn


Bataa tu bhi aakhir Pashemaan Kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko parayshaan kyoon haye?


Tamaam ashaar is kaavish kay monotonous hayn.. ayk he mauzoo par hayn aur tanz kar rahayn hayn.... Ki Nadaanee mayn mashooq ko tabaah kardaynay kay ba'd yay izhaar-e- pashemaani kyoon, suaal poochnay waala to tabaah/barbaad/fanaah ho chuka, ba'd uskay yay pashaymaanee ka izhaar kyoon? Its too late to show remorse.... is kaavish ki tone kuch tanziya si haye.. shayar apnay faut honay kay ba'd daykh rahaa haye aur uski rooh yay suaalaat kar rahee haye us nadaan mashook say.. ki usay(ya'nee shayar ko) saaf nazar aaraha haye us nadaan kay tarz e amal say ki wo soach o fikr o pashemaanee mayn dooba hua haye aur uski yay haalat daykh mazloom/uski rooh yay suaal pooch rahee haye..

Agar mayn nazm kay sahee definition say jaaoon tou yay kaavish ayk nazm haye kyunkee yay montonous honay kay ilaawaa ayk he mauzoo par shuru say aakhir tak baat kar rahee haye.. aur shayr e awwal say aakhir tak aap daykhayn tou aapko ayk he daastaan nazar aayaygee... bayshak aapka uthaya hua nuqta sau feesad sahee haye , bas mayn aapkay saamnay apnee manzarkashee is kaavish kay likhtay waqt kee bayaan ker rahaa hoon...




Aapka mashkoor wa mamnoon hoon bayhad jo aapnay is khaaksaar ki islaah ki fikr kee aur apna bayshqeemtee waqt ataa kiyaa. Aapka maazrat khwaah hoon Takheer e haazree kay liyay!

Duagoh
Ahmad

Last edited by Ahmad Hyderabadi; 21st January 2013 at 06:31 PM..
   
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21st January 2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by janumanu View Post
bhayee socha do char bateN maiN bhi kah duN ... baaki baten apni jagah haiN... shayri apni jagah...
khair to dekhte hai... bahyee pahle bata dun... jin do logo ne pahle comment de diye hai unke baad comment dena ... badi himmat ka kaam hai... aur aisi himaat maiN hi kar sakta tha .. aur to koe nahi .. bas itna hi kahungaa ... wo jo kah deN maan lena.. maiN jo kahu ik baar soch lena ...
so zidd n masood bhayee .... MAy I ?

---


Bataa tu bhi aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,
Mitaaker tu mujhko pareshaan kyoon hai?

bhayee... oolaa maiN "mujhe bhi" se kya muraad hai.. kisi aur se bhi poocha hai ya aur ne bhi bataya hai?
sher kacha padta sa laga yahi se mujhe
iski ek surat likh de raha hun...
bhalee lage to bhala ..nahi lage to bhi bhala

Vikaas bhaee aapka bayhad mashkoor hoon jo aapnay apnay Takhallus kay sahee ma'nee apnay tarzay amal say zaahir kiyay, ya'nee is khaaksaar k liyay apna iz-haar e fikr kiya. Mayra yay maanna haye ki koee kisi ko apnee zindgee ka ayk lam-ha bhi purkhloos wa baylaus ataa karay to wasoolkananda ko ta umr uska mashkoor rahna chahiyay aur aapka jawaab zaahir kerta hye ki aapka kitna waqt is koshish par lagaa.. mujhay aapkee koee bhi baat buree nahee lagee kyunkee mayn sirf aur sirf ta'leemee nazariyay ko lay is madrsay mayn aaya hoon... aapka bayhad shukriyaa bhaee!

--
bata de k itna pasheman kyun hai
mitakar mujhe ab pashemaan kyuN hai


--
aapka sudhaara shayr buhat aala haye par mayray dil ko wo tasallee nahee ho rahee.. ki jo manzarkashee aur tone mayn convey kerna chaahtaa hoon us shayr mayn wo intensity is oola mayn nahee mahsoos horahee mujhay?

Ayk suaal...

Bata tu 'hee' aakhir pashemaan kyoon hai,

yay kaysa rahaygaa..?


Wafa kay silay mayn jafaa daykay mujhko
Jagaa tayray andar yay eemaan kyoon hai?

bhayee ......... is sher maiN do soorteN haiN mere hisaab se ..

oola maiN lafz "de ke" jo pesh aayeeN hai ... magar dono hi surat maiN... sher main kafi jhol hai ...

mujhe ek surat ye ki ... wafa ke badle main jafa "de kar" (after that...)
jaga tere andar "ye" imaan kyun hai ... ab yaha "ye" nahi khulaa ki .. ye imaan se aap kya kahna chahte haiN..
agar ye hai.. to mere khyaal se sher fir hi se kahna chahiye

Aapka nazriya bilkul sahee haye par mayray tasavvur wa nazariyay kay hisaab say koshish kerta hoon samjhaanay ki:

Yay kaavish ayk tanziya tone mayn takmeel kee gayee haye...

Ooola wa Thaaanee ko milaker parhayn tou saaf nazar aaygaa(mayray mutaabiq) ki Jab maynay tujhsay wafaa kee tab to toonay mujhay uskay silay mayn jafaa dee, ab yay be-imaani wala amal karnay kay ba'd yay izhaar-e-eemaan(pashemaanee) kyoon jaagee haye tujhmayn?? Agar is kaavish ko aap shuru say aakhir tak parhayn tou saaf nazar aajaygaa ki yay ayk nazm haye jo ayk he daastaan/rudaad bayaan kar rahee haye... if you look at the bigger picture I believe yay shayr waze' hojaygaa.... baaqi aapko jo sahee lagay bhaee! Thanks heaps... am learning a lot here!

doosri surat,,,

tune wafa ke badle mai jafa di... means aap jafa milne par bhi use imaan wala kah rahe hai.. ( ya tanz maar rahe hai ulte meaning k sath.... ki chal itna imaan to hai tujhme ki kuch na kuch diya)

to isme "de ke" lafz sahi nahi hai....

ek surat deta hun

sile meiN wafa ke jafa tune di jo ( wafa aur jafa lafz i think should be closed to each other)
Jagaa tere andar ye eemaan kyoon hai?
---



Bana kay tu muflis mujhay poochta hai,
Yay chaak mayraa giraybaan kyoon hai?

bhayee ... khyaal pe aataa hun pahle... muflis ... ka chaak girebaan honaa kuch jyda hajam nahi hua... haan gareeb ki aisi halat ho sakti hai... par chak girebaan pagaloN ki nishani diwano ki nishani .. hoti hai...
so mujhe lagata hai mufil ki jagah diwana pagal ... hona chahiye

aur sher behr se bhi khariz hai ... kyun hai masood bhayee ne bata hi diyaa hai...

let me try

bana kar wo pagal khud hi poochtaa hai
huaa chaak tera girebaan kyuN hai

Absolute agreement here with you... mujhay jahaan tak yaad haye is shayr ko likhtay waqt mujhay yay bhee khayaal aaya thaa ... khurroj e behr say mayn sau feesad muttafiq hoon bhaee.

Oola aapnay jo bataya wo kaafi seedha aur bayshak sahee bhee haye par mujhay lafz e 'pagal' lafz e 'muflis' ki jagah badalnay say tasallee nahee horahee.. again I do not feel the intensity or my thought is being exactly reflected there... isiliyay oola mayn mayn 'Muflis' hee rakhna pasand karoongaa... aap bayshak sahee hayn!
-----



Jalakay yay gulshan meraa soachtaa hai,
Yay jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?


bhayee .....
pahli baat jo jalayega wo sochega kyuN..sochega bhi to aap kaise kah sakte ho wo woch raha hai...aur kya soch raha hai...

hum kahte hai aap mere bare main kya sochte ho... yaha sochne ka matlab "rai" se hota hai..
magar aapne jo sochne ki baat kahi hai... wo sawaal soch wala sochna hai... use "rai" nahi hai ..like instant thinking ...

haan agar "bolta" ho sochta ki jagah to...
kah sakte they... jhooth kah raha hai... tanz maar raha hai.. parda daal raha hai...
par sochta hai.... pe mushkil hai kahna ..
girah bhi lagegi sher meiN

sochta ki jagah bolta kar do to kaam chalega ...

jala "KAR" "WOH" gulshan mera, bolta hai
ye jhulsaa huaa sa biyabaan kyoon hai?

iska jawaab aap Janaab Mujeeb sahab ko diyay reply mayn jo is shayr kay mutalliq haye, daykh saktay hayn.... bayhad shukriya aapki aaraa ka bhaee!
Aa turbat pay mayree karay fikr kyun tu,
Basayra yay Ahmad ka viraan kyuun hai?

hmmm.... bhayee pahli bat .. shukriyaa mera takhalus aa gaya

You are always welcome.... bhaee ab yay tou nahee keh sakta mujhay pahlay hee say ma'loom thaa kee jab bhee yay kaavish thok peeth ker seedhi hogee tou mayn isay joint work of Ahmad-Fikr post kernay wala thaa...
ab sher dekhtaa huN ...

bhayee pahli baar to aisa laga tha ki ... aap invite kar rahe ho... aa turbat pe meri ... magar fir se dekha to .. khulaa
" aa kar " main aapne kar ko silent kar diya hai... aa turbat pe meri ...

waise ek surat de deta hun...

wo hai fikr meiN meri turbat pe aakar ( isi fikr meiN hai wo turbat pe aakar)
basera ye "Ahmad" ka veeraan kyuN hai

Very good bhayee.... buhat buhat shukriyaa aapki nazr e inaayat kaa! Buhat pasand aaya mujhay yay shayr.. it is perfect in my view....

bas bhayee ... jo laga kah diyaa.... ye meri rai achi lage to le lena ... barna ... ignore kar dena ..
fir se ghazal ki surat meiN sher rakh ke de deta hun..

Bhaee aapka khuloos daykh bayhad khushee huee aur aapka maazratkhwaah hoon takheer e shukriya kay liyay! Ilteja haye aapsay yoonhee bila jhijak purkhuloos tashreef laatay rahayn aur saath nibhaatay rahayn!
__________



regards ........
Bhaee aapka khuloos daykh bayhad khushee huee aur aapka maazratkhwaah hoon takheer e shukriya kay liyay! Ilteja haye aapsay yoonhee bila jhijak purkhuloos tashreef laatay rahayn aur saath nibhaatay rahayn
   
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Thank You Zidd Bhaee!! - 21st January 2013, 06:51 PM

Zidd Bhaee Zidd Bhaee Zidd Bhaee!!

Aadaab wa tasleemaat! Aaapki tashreefawaaree wa shirkat ka mayn jitna shukr adaa karoon kam haye....... Just wanted to say Deep Thanks and Kind regards for your precious time in explaining to us the intricacies of behr and other aspects.. I for sure learnt a lot... Thank You once again bhaee...

Ilteja haye aapsay yoonhee saath banayay rakhayn!

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22nd January 2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:
Agar mayn nazm kay sahee definition say jaaoon tou yay kaavish ayk nazm haye kyunkee yay montonous honay kay ilaawaa ayk he mauzoo par shuru say aakhir tak baat kar rahee haye.. aur shayr e awwal say aakhir tak aap daykhayn tou aapko ayk he daastaan nazar aayaygee... bayshak aapka uthaya hua nuqta sau feesad sahee haye , bas mayn aapkay saamnay apnee manzarkashee is kaavish kay likhtay waqt kee bayaan ker rahaa hoon...
aik hi mazmoon per likhi gaey asha'aar ko musalsal ghazal bhee kaha jaata hai shayad.


kuch kahoN to sharm saar hoN
chup rahoN to guneh gaar hoN
   
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22nd January 2013, 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujeeb View Post
aik hi mazmoon per likhi gaey asha'aar ko musalsal ghazal bhee kaha jaata hai shayad.
AsSalam Alykum Muhtaram Janab Mujeeb Sahab! Shukriyaa aapki rehnumaaee kaa.. khaaksaar kay ilm may izaafa huaa jaanker.... .. ilteja haye aapsay yoon hee khuloos wa shafaqqat bhara saath barqaraar rakhayn!

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