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Sawaal Jawaab!
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zainy
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Post Sawaal Jawaab! - 15th June 2014, 02:55 AM

Sawaal Jawaab!

DostoN yahaaN maiN ek naya thread shuru kar rahi huuN, jiska naam hai "Sawaal Jawaab"

Is thread ko shuru karne ka maqsad yahi hai ke hum shayri ke mutalliq ek dusre ki madad kareiN.

Shayri likhte waqt hum sabko kabhi na kabhi, koi na koi sawaal mann me aate haiN, aur hum jawaab yahaaN wahaaN talash karte haiN.

Ab hum is thread per apne sawaal kiya karenge aur Sdc ke jis bhi member ko iska jawaab pata ho , wo jawaab de saktay haiN.

Sawaal sirf shayri ke talluq se hi hone chahiye.

Behr, urdu lafz ke matlab, ya sher ka matlab, kuch bhi chota ya bada shak o shuba kisre mirse ke talluq , kuch bhi shayri se juda sawaal aap yahaaN pooch sahte haiN..

Chaliye is thread ka aaghaz maiN hi karti huuN

Mera sawaal:

1)Ek accha sher likhne ke liye kin baatoN ko dyaan me rakhna chahiye..




Zainy


PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
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ufaq
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ufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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15th June 2014, 10:39 AM

Bahut achcha aaghaaz hai.........reps ++++++

Last edited by ufaq; 15th June 2014 at 10:43 AM..
   
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zidd
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zidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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15th June 2014, 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
Sawaal Jawaab!

DostoN yahaaN maiN ek naya thread shuru kar rahi huuN, jiska naam hai "Sawaal Jawaab"

Is thread ko shuru karne ka maqsad yahi hai ke hum shayri ke mutalliq ek dusre ki madad kareiN.

Shayri likhte waqt hum sabko kabhi na kabhi, koi na koi sawaal mann me aate haiN, aur hum jawaab yahaaN wahaaN talash karte haiN.

Ab hum is thread per apne sawaal kiya karenge aur Sdc ke jis bhi member ko iska jawaab pata ho , wo jawaab de saktay haiN.

Sawaal sirf shayri ke talluq se hi hone chahiye.

Behr, urdu lafz ke matlab, ya sher ka matlab, kuch bhi chota ya bada shak o shuba kisre mirse ke talluq , kuch bhi shayri se juda sawaal aap yahaaN pooch sahte haiN..

Chaliye is thread ka aaghaz maiN hi karti huuN

Mera sawaal:

1)Ek accha sher likhne ke liye kin baatoN ko dyaan me rakhna chahiye..
is baat ka jawaab bahut kaTin hai...
ab aapne 'sher' lafz istemaaal kiya hai to mai samjhta hu ye sawaal ghazalgoyi e dayre me hai , us dayre me simit ye reply kar raha hu.

is sawaal se pahle ye sawaal ka jawaab dena hoga


Ek SAHI sher likhne ke liye kin baatoN ko dyaan me rakhna chahiye..

ab is sawaal ko attempt karta hu mai...kyuki pahla sawaal subjecyive hai ..maine use pahle objective banaya hai...phir us pahle sawaal ko try karte hai sab.

ek sahi sher ke liye ye zaruri hai.

1] ki sher har haalaat me metered ho, yani ki behrband ho.
2] grammar bilkul sahi ho .
3] sher bharti ke lafzo se aazaad ho.
4]sher ke lafz , usme darj jazbaat se zyada na bole ya chillayen.

agla sawaal phir dekhta hu...baqi dosto se bhi guzarish hai ke apne opinion rakhe yaha , rai den. ki sahi sher kya hai..acccha ya kitne darje accha ki baat nahi philhaal, bus ek sahi sher kya hai.
   
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15th June 2014, 08:19 PM

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Bahut achcha aaghaaz hai.........reps ++++++

Shukriyah Ufaq sahab!........................




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15th June 2014, 08:21 PM

Quote:
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is baat ka jawaab bahut kaTin hai...
ab aapne 'sher' lafz istemaaal kiya hai to mai samjhta hu ye sawaal ghazalgoyi e dayre me hai , us dayre me simit ye reply kar raha hu.

is sawaal se pahle ye sawaal ka jawaab dena hoga


Ek SAHI sher likhne ke liye kin baatoN ko dyaan me rakhna chahiye..

ab is sawaal ko attempt karta hu mai...kyuki pahla sawaal subjecyive hai ..maine use pahle objective banaya hai...phir us pahle sawaal ko try karte hai sab.

ek sahi sher ke liye ye zaruri hai.

1] ki sher har haalaat me metered ho, yani ki behrband ho.
2] grammar bilkul sahi ho .
3] sher bharti ke lafzo se aazaad ho.
4]sher ke lafz , usme darj jazbaat se zyada na bole ya chillayen.

agla sawaal phir dekhta hu...baqi dosto se bhi guzarish hai ke apne opinion rakhe yaha , rai den. ki sahi sher kya hai..acccha ya kitne darje accha ki baat nahi philhaal, bus ek sahi sher kya hai.
Shukriyah zidd sahab. ..achcha lagaa aapka jawaab padhker...sdc ke aur bhi members se request hai ke apni raey zaroor deiN ke sahi sher kya hai?




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ufaq
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16th June 2014, 12:03 AM

Quote:
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Shukriyah zidd sahab. ..achcha lagaa aapka jawaab padhker...sdc ke aur bhi members se request hai ke apni raey zaroor deiN ke sahi sher kya hai?
Aapko sawaal kuch badal gayaa hai.....sahii sher ya achcha sher???????
   
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16th June 2014, 12:09 AM

Jaise ki zidd sahab ne kaha hai...accha sher baad me..pehle sahi sher ke baare me guftagu karte hain...

To pehle SAHI sher ke baare me hi bataiye..




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zidd
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zidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzidd is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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16th June 2014, 12:10 AM

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Aapko sawaal kuch badal gayaa hai.....sahii sher ya achcha sher???????
filhaal to ufaq sahab us sawaal ke scope ko chota kiya hai aur objective banaya hai.
jo original sawaal hai uska jawaab to ek encyclopedia me bhi nahi poora hoga.

so sawaal ko tod tod kar chota kar denge ...

i think its a valid exercise...rest upto the people here.

ek accha sher ke prequisites ko encapsulate karna ( chota arna), bahut aasaan kaam nahi. but i think it can still be done..as bullet points.

dekhte hai agee...
   
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ufaq
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ufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comufaq is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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16th June 2014, 06:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
is baat ka jawaab bahut kaTin hai...
ab aapne 'sher' lafz istemaaal kiya hai to mai samjhta hu ye sawaal ghazalgoyi e dayre me hai , us dayre me simit ye reply kar raha hu.

is sawaal se pahle ye sawaal ka jawaab dena hoga


Ek SAHI sher likhne ke liye kin baatoN ko dyaan me rakhna chahiye..

ab is sawaal ko attempt karta hu mai...kyuki pahla sawaal subjecyive hai ..maine use pahle objective banaya hai...phir us pahle sawaal ko try karte hai sab.

ek sahi sher ke liye ye zaruri hai.

1] ki sher har haalaat me metered ho, yani ki behrband ho.
2] grammar bilkul sahi ho .
3] sher bharti ke lafzo se aazaad ho.
4]sher ke lafz , usme darj jazbaat se zyada na bole ya chillayen.

agla sawaal phir dekhta hu...baqi dosto se bhi guzarish hai ke apne opinion rakhe yaha , rai den. ki sahi sher kya hai..acccha ya kitne darje accha ki baat nahi philhaal, bus ek sahi sher kya hai.
Zidd sahab Ke bataaye points me'n ek points jodna chaahu'ngaa ki...sher Ke Dino misro Me ek rabt bona chaahiye...we do-lakht ki soorat na padiaa karta ho.............regards
   
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Rajeev Sharma
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16th June 2014, 12:34 PM

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Zidd sahab Ke bataaye points me'n ek points jodna chaahu'ngaa ki...sher Ke Dino misro Me ek rabt bona chaahiye...we do-lakht ki soorat na padiaa karta ho.............regards

Jaise:.........??
sabse pahle Zainy ji aapka bahut bahut shukriyaa.........
bahut acchhi koshish ki hai aapne ........

umeed hai bahut kuch sikhane ko milegaa yahaN...

mere aap sabhi se anurodh hai ki jahaN zarurat ho wahaN udaaharan(example) bhi de.
hameN samjhne me aasaani hogi........
shukriyaa


maNzil pr nazar rakhtaa huN
zaari apnaa safar rakhtaa huN !!

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zainy
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zainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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16th June 2014, 02:08 PM

I agree with Rajeev ji...please make this conversation easy one...so that everyone understands it...aap log examples bhi diya kareiN ..

We are still in nursery jii...........




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Thumbs up 16th June 2014, 05:19 PM

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Originally Posted by zainy View Post
Sawaal Jawaab!

DostoN yahaaN maiN ek naya thread shuru kar rahi huuN, jiska naam hai "Sawaal Jawaab"

Is thread ko shuru karne ka maqsad yahi hai ke hum shayri ke mutalliq ek dusre ki madad kareiN.

Shayri likhte waqt hum sabko kabhi na kabhi, koi na koi sawaal mann me aate haiN, aur hum jawaab yahaaN wahaaN talash karte haiN.

Ab hum is thread per apne sawaal kiya karenge aur Sdc ke jis bhi member ko iska jawaab pata ho , wo jawaab de saktay haiN.

Sawaal sirf shayri ke talluq se hi hone chahiye.

Behr, urdu lafz ke matlab, ya sher ka matlab, kuch bhi chota ya bada shak o shuba kisre mirse ke talluq , kuch bhi shayri se juda sawaal aap yahaaN pooch sahte haiN..

Chaliye is thread ka aaghaz maiN hi karti huuN

Mera sawaal:

1)Ek accha sher likhne ke liye kin baatoN ko dyaan me rakhna chahiye..

Tasleemaat Behna!!

Buhat umdaa wa aalatareen koshish hai bahna! Allah Paak kaamyaab farmayay!... good on you all! Will try my best to contribute too!!


Duagoh

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zainy
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16th June 2014, 11:35 PM

Shukriyah Ahmed bhai. ....................




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17th June 2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
I agree with Rajeev ji...please make this conversation easy one...so that everyone understands it...aap log examples bhi diya kareiN ..

We are still in nursery jii...........
Zainyji,
pehle toh, aapka bahot bahot shukriya ki yeh ek behtarin shuruaat kii hai aapne. Ek guzaarish hai ki iss thread ko sticky banaayaa jaaye

aur aapki aur Rajeevji kii baat se bhii sehmat hooN...
toh intezaar rahega, examples ka... khas kar, Zidd saab, aapkii 3rd aur 4th ponts pe...

Ufaq saab jo kehna chahte haiN usska example maiN koshish karta hooN. Ufaq saab agar kuch galti ho toh muaafi ka arzmand rahoonga

Ufaq: sher ke dono misro me ek rabt (relation) hona chaahiye.. we do lakht kii surat na paida karta ho...

ab usska udaaharan maiN ulta deta hooN

niche ka sher galat hoga..
teree aankheN tere har gham kii baateN keh rahi hai aaj
mere sine meN yeh kaisee agan jalne lagi hai aaj


ab upar ke sher ko dekhenge, toh dono misro meN koee relation hi nahiN hai...
pehla misra, kisee ke gham meN aansoo bahaane kii baat karta hai, jab ki dusre misre meN apne sine meN dard kii aag kii baat huii hai..

isee tarah se, sher adhura bhii nahiN rehna chaahiye... jaise ki;
tumko dekhke mujhe huaa hai
aisaa kya zindagee meN phir se....


ab upar ka sher aadhee hi baat kar rahaa hai, ghazal meN ek sher meN poori baat khatm honee chaahiye, jo upar ke sher meN nahiN ho rahee hai....



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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zainy
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zainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.comzainy is the among the best Shayars at Shayri.com
 
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17th June 2014, 02:59 PM

Bohat shukriyah Aadil sahab. ....

Guzarish hai ke jo 4 points zidd sahab ne bataye unke bhi examples dein..

To points sabko clearly samajh aa jayenge




Zainy


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Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

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Rajeev Sharma
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17th June 2014, 03:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil View Post
Zainyji,
pehle toh, aapka bahot bahot shukriya ki yeh ek behtarin shuruaat kii hai aapne. Ek guzaarish hai ki iss thread ko sticky banaayaa jaaye

aur aapki aur Rajeevji kii baat se bhii sehmat hooN...
toh intezaar rahega, examples ka... khas kar, Zidd saab, aapkii 3rd aur 4th ponts pe...

Ufaq saab jo kehna chahte haiN usska example maiN koshish karta hooN. Ufaq saab agar kuch galti ho toh muaafi ka arzmand rahoonga

Ufaq: sher ke dono misro me ek rabt (relation) hona chaahiye.. we do lakht kii surat na paida karta ho...

ab usska udaaharan maiN ulta deta hooN

niche ka sher galat hoga..
teree aankheN tere har gham kii baateN keh rahi hai aaj
mere sine meN yeh kaisee agan jalne lagi hai aaj


ab upar ke sher ko dekhenge, toh dono misro meN koee relation hi nahiN hai...
pehla misra, kisee ke gham meN aansoo bahaane kii baat karta hai, jab ki dusre misre meN apne sine meN dard kii aag kii baat huii hai..

isee tarah se, sher adhura bhii nahiN rehna chaahiye... jaise ki;
tumko dekhke mujhe huaa hai
aisaa kya zindagee meN phir se....


ab upar ka sher aadhee hi baat kar rahaa hai, ghazal meN ek sher meN poori baat khatm honee chaahiye, jo upar ke sher meN nahiN ho rahee hai....

aadeil ji bahut bahut shukriyaa ...........


meraa ek sawal hai
kyaa ye sher rabt me hai ... ?


duniyaaN mere hotoN se hasi maaNg rhi hai
jo nhi pass mere wo khushi maaNg rhi hai


maNzil pr nazar rakhtaa huN
zaari apnaa safar rakhtaa huN !!

===========================

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Love 17th June 2014, 03:17 PM

zainy jee bahut achha silsila shuru hua hai
knowledge badhaane waala rahega yeh threadh

shukriya aisa thread shuru karne ke liye

radhe radhe


Aapka Apna
Ishk


'इश्क' के बदले इश्क चाहना तिजारत है
इज़हार किससे करें महबूब तो दिल में है


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17th June 2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
Bohat shukriyah Aadil sahab. ....

Guzarish hai ke jo 4 points zidd sahab ne bataye unke bhi examples dein..

To points sabko clearly samajh aa jayenge
Zainyji,
Shukriya...
pehli do points toh saaf hai...
1] sher meterized (behr-band) hona chaaiye.....
ab iske liye toh meN guzaarish karoonga har shaayar ko ki we Zidd saab ke niche dii gayee link wale thread pe behr ke baare meN poori jaankaari leN;
http://www.shayri.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69311

behr ke baare meN bahot hi khubsurat article unhoN ne likha hai.. uske alaavaa maine koshish kii hai, takteeoN ke baare meN kuch tashreeh (explanation) karne kii, shaayad wo bhii aapke kaam aa jaaye agar kuch adhik jaankaari chaahiye toh.. link niche hai..
http://www.shayri.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76827

2] grammar bilkul sahii ho..
yeh to laajmii hai ki agar grammar sahi nahiN hogi toh shaayar apni baat sahi tarike se bayaan nahi kar paayenge koii example dhyan meN nahi aa rahaa hai :P
ek simple si explanaton ye hi hogi ki; jaise, gender pe dhyan deN..
jaise.. muskaan, aankh, muhabbat, rag (nabz) feminine gender haiN toh uske saath 'thee' ya phir plural meN 'theeN' ka istemaal hoga. Vaise hi, dil, jigar, pyar yeh masculine gender haiN. aisee cheezoN pe khaas dhyan deN.

3rd or 4th point kii clarity maiN khud mang rahaa hooN Zidd saab se



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17th June 2014, 03:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeev Sharma View Post

aadeil ji bahut bahut shukriyaa ...........


meraa ek sawal hai
kyaa ye sher rabt me hai ... ?


duniyaaN mere hotoN se hasi maaNg rhi hai
jo nhi pass mere wo khushi maaNg rhi hai
Rajeevji,
aapka aabhar
aapka diya gayaa sher, mere hisaab se bilkul rabt meN hai..

use maiN iss tarah se tabdeer kar sakta hooN..
maiN jab khush nahi hooN toh maiN apne hotoN pe hansee kahaaN se laaunga? aur phir bhii duniya ko yeh kahaaN pataa hai? wo toh meri hansi kii talabgaar hai....
ummeed hai aapke sawaal ka jawaab sahi de paayaa hooN



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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17th June 2014, 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil View Post
Rajeevji,
aapka aabhar
aapka diya gayaa sher, mere hisaab se bilkul rabt meN hai..

use maiN iss tarah se tabdeer kar sakta hooN..
maiN jab khush nahi hooN toh maiN apne hotoN pe hansee kahaaN se laaunga? aur phir bhii duniya ko yeh kahaaN pataa hai? wo toh meri hansi kii talabgaar hai....
ummeed hai aapke sawaal ka jawaab sahi de paayaa hooN
magar Rajeevji, beher samajh nahi aayee

duniyaaN mere hotoN se hasi maaNg rhi hai
jo nhi pass mere wo khushi maaNg rhi hai

plz clear karenge agar aapne yeh sher beher ke niyamaanusaar hi likha hai?



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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17th June 2014, 05:27 PM

ALL BLUE FONTS MINE

ab usska udaaharan maiN ulta deta hooN ( in respect of RABT)

niche ka sher galat hoga..
teree aankheN tere har gham kii baateN keh rahi hai aaj
mere sine meN yeh kaisee agan jalne lagi hai aaj


As far as rabt is concerned, kuch bhi black and white nahi.
aapka darj sher hi dekh lijiye ,jisko aaap kahte hai rabt nahi..magar mujhe rabt me lagta hai...

rabt is of many many types. and rabt is both in letter and spirit and also in letters only and spirit only, or any combinations of it.

technical arguement karemn to aapke darj sher ka namune me rabt hai...kitni hai , kitni acchi hai is beyond the scope of this discussion, par ye baat bhi hai ki stronger the rabt more 'effective' the sher.

aapke sher me kam se kam 2 hisaab se rabt hai
1] awwal to enviormental rabt hai, yahi dono sher ka mahaul ek hai....like...unki aankhe gum ki kanahi kah rahi hai ,so aapke sine me jalan ho rahi hai(aaj)...kaha rabt nahi hai?

2]verbal rabt hai- eyes and chest , two parts of he same body , justify the oneness...yani us sher ko yaksaa hone ki taqat de rahi hai.
ise symbolism kahta hai. it provides a very strong to the bonds of two line of the sher.


-----------


isee tarah se, sher adhura bhii nahiN rehna chaahiye... jaise ki;
tumko dekhke mujhe huaa hai
aisaa kya zindagee meN phir se....


ab upar ka sher aadhee hi baat kar rahaa hai, ghazal meN ek sher meN poori baat khatm honee chaahiye, jo upar ke sher meN nahiN ho rahee hai....[/B][/QUOTE]

ye sher - aadhi baat nahi kar raha hai, sirf aap last me ek question mark laga dijiye. varna sher atpata sa zarur hai
is sher par ye ilzaam lag sakta hai ki its hilarious and ridiculous...lekin sher incomplete nahi hai ye...there is no such thing as an incomplete sher in my opinion. it is a more of a rhetorical defect than prosodical.

haa, ek zaruri baat- agar sher ka dusra misra ,gramatically first sher se shuru hota hai to vo galat sher hai, bhale beher me ho aur rabt bhi .
for e,g this sher( mujeeb sahab..ispar charcha hui thi mujhe yaad hai)

haiN aib hazaroN poosheedah yahaaN warna , hai
har koi darinda , sab mazhoor agar hoota.... mujeeb sahab.

yaha gaur kijiye - pahle misre ke last me 'hai' hai aur vo 'hai' dusre misre ko start kar raha hai...so this is a defect. bot lines should be gramatically non interconnected and independent from each other.

waise bhi ek sher me baat khatm hojana , zaruri nahi ki aib ho, kuch baate adhuri bhi chod di jaati hai unkahi...magar sunnewala samjh jata hai aur lutf leta hai khoob

ye ek rhetorical device hai...mujhe nahi lagta ki urdu me iska koi special naam ho...english me ise 'asopiosesis ' and uska variation' anapodoton ' kahte hai.

(i have tried to broadly cover all aspects of the question)
   
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17th June 2014, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
ALL BLUE FONTS MINE

ab usska udaaharan maiN ulta deta hooN ( in respect of RABT)

niche ka sher galat hoga..
teree aankheN tere har gham kii baateN keh rahi hai aaj
mere sine meN yeh kaisee agan jalne lagi hai aaj


As far as rabt is concerned, kuch bhi black and white nahi.
aapka darj sher hi dekh lijiye ,jisko aaap kahte hai rabt nahi..magar mujhe rabt me lagta hai...

rabt is of many many types. and rabt is both in letter and spirit and also in letters only and spirit only, or any combinations of it.

technical arguement karemn to aapke darj sher ka namune me rabt hai...kitni hai , kitni acchi hai is beyond the scope of this discussion, par ye baat bhi hai ki stronger the rabt more 'effective' the sher.

aapke sher me kam se kam 2 hisaab se rabt hai
1] awwal to enviormental rabt hai, yahi dono sher ka mahaul ek hai....like...unki aankhe gum ki kanahi kah rahi hai ,so aapke sine me jalan ho rahi hai(aaj)...kaha rabt nahi hai?

2]verbal rabt hai- eyes and chest , two parts of he same body , justify the oneness...yani us sher ko yaksaa hone ki taqat de rahi hai.
ise symbolism kahta hai. it provides a very strong to the bonds of two line of the sher.


-----------


isee tarah se, sher adhura bhii nahiN rehna chaahiye... jaise ki;
tumko dekhke mujhe huaa hai
aisaa kya zindagee meN phir se....


ab upar ka sher aadhee hi baat kar rahaa hai, ghazal meN ek sher meN poori baat khatm honee chaahiye, jo upar ke sher meN nahiN ho rahee hai....[/B]
ye sher - aadhi baat nahi kar raha hai, sirf aap last me ek question mark laga dijiye. varna sher atpata sa zarur hai
is sher par ye ilzaam lag sakta hai ki its hilarious and ridiculous...lekin sher incomplete nahi hai ye...there is no such thing as an incomplete sher in my opinion. it is a more of a rhetorical defect than prosodical.

haa, ek zaruri baat- agar sher ka dusra misra ,gramatically first sher se shuru hota hai to vo galat sher hai, bhale beher me ho aur rabt bhi .
for e,g this sher( mujeeb sahab..ispar charcha hui thi mujhe yaad hai)

haiN aib hazaroN poosheedah yahaaN warna , hai
har koi darinda , sab mazhoor agar hoota.... mujeeb sahab.

yaha gaur kijiye - pahle misre ke last me 'hai' hai aur vo 'hai' dusre misre ko start kar raha hai...so this is a defect. bot lines should be gramatically non interconnected and independent from each other.

waise bhi ek sher me baat khatm hojana , zaruri nahi ki aib ho, kuch baate adhuri bhi chod di jaati hai unkahi...magar sunnewala samjh jata hai aur lutf leta hai khoob

ye ek rhetorical device hai...mujhe nahi lagta ki urdu me iska koi special naam ho...english me ise 'asopiosesis ' and uska variation' anapodoton ' kahte hai.

(i have tried to broadly cover all aspects of the question)
[/QUOTE]

shukriya, Zidd saab..

aapne bahot hi khubsurti se iss pehlu ko samjhaayaa hai.. aur aapki iss baat se maiN sehmat hooN ki yeh har ek individual pe hai ki woh sher ko kees tarah se tabdeer karta hai
Vaise maine rabt ke mudde ko example thru samjhaane kii koshish kii, magar lagta hai.. galat likhna sahi likhne se mushkiil hai

vaise, thanks a lot.

abhii bhii aapkii 3rd aur 4th points kee explanation baaki hai ummeed hai, jald hi aap uspe bhii roshni daalenge



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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17th June 2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeev Sharma View Post

aadeil ji bahut bahut shukriyaa ...........


meraa ek sawal hai
kyaa ye sher rabt me hai ... ?


duniyaaN mere hotoN se hasi maaNg rhi hai
jo nhi pass mere wo khushi maaNg rhi hai
in my opinion there is no problem of rabt
   
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17th June 2014, 05:42 PM

Zainyji.. Zainyji..
meri darkhwast hai ki iss thread ko sticky banaayaa jaaye..



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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17th June 2014, 05:48 PM

Quote:
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Zainyji.. Zainyji..
meri darkhwast hai ki iss thread ko sticky banaayaa jaaye..
Is section ke mods ko inform kar diya hai maine...




Zainy


PalkoN ki baand ko tod ke daaman pe aa gira
Ek aaNsu mere zabt ki tauheen kar gaya...

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Smile 17th June 2014, 05:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadeil View Post
Zainyji,
pehle toh, aapka bahot bahot shukriya ki yeh ek behtarin shuruaat kii hai aapne. Ek guzaarish hai ki iss thread ko sticky banaayaa jaaye

aur aapki aur Rajeevji kii baat se bhii sehmat hooN...
toh intezaar rahega, examples ka... khas kar, Zidd saab, aapkii 3rd aur 4th ponts pe...

Ufaq saab jo kehna chahte haiN usska example maiN koshish karta hooN. Ufaq saab agar kuch galti ho toh muaafi ka arzmand rahoonga

Ufaq: sher ke dono misro me ek rabt (relation) hona chaahiye.. we do lakht kii surat na paida karta ho...

ab usska udaaharan maiN ulta deta hooN

niche ka sher galat hoga..
teree aankheN tere har gham kii baateN keh rahi hai aaj
mere sine meN yeh kaisee agan jalne lagi hai aaj


ab upar ke sher ko dekhenge, toh dono misro meN koee relation hi nahiN hai...
pehla misra, kisee ke gham meN aansoo bahaane kii baat karta hai, jab ki dusre misre meN apne sine meN dard kii aag kii baat huii hai..

isee tarah se, sher adhura bhii nahiN rehna chaahiye... jaise ki;
tumko dekhke mujhe huaa hai
aisaa kya zindagee meN phir se....


ab upar ka sher aadhee hi baat kar rahaa hai, ghazal meN ek sher meN poori baat khatm honee chaahiye, jo upar ke sher meN nahiN ho rahee hai....
Sabse pahale to aadil sahib aapko aapki koshish Ke liye daad.....pahale socha ki aapne jawaab De hi diya hai.......chhodo kyaa comment karna.....phir janaab newton Ka kuch kahaa yaad Aa gaya.......our greatest weakness is giving up to apni haqeer raay zaahir lagne Aa gayaa hu....Jo aage tafseel se darj hai

DO-LAKHT Ka maani hai.......do tukhde.....yaani jab sher Ke do misre alag-2 baat kahe to use DO-LAKHT kahate hai ....Jo ki bahut bada aib hai....

Missal Ke liye ek chhota sa qissa suniye.......

Ek baar janaab haidar Ali aatish Ke paas unke ek shaagird apna ye sher lekar aaye

Fasl-e gul me'n mujhe kahtaa hai kih gulshan se nikal
aisii be-par kii udhaataa thaa na saiyaad kabhii

Is sher par aatish sahib ki islaah dekhiye.....

Par katar kar mujhe kahtaa hai kih gulshan se nikal
aisii be-par kii udhaataa thaa nah saiyaad kabhii

Kahane ki koi zaroorat nahi ki pahle sher me DO LAKHT tha Jo aatish saahib ne door kar diya.....lekin do-lakht ko pakadna itna aasan nahi hai aur main apni baat phir duharaata hu.....do lakht ko pakadnaa aasan nahi hai

Ghaalib jaise shaair bhi is aib se Bach nahi paaye....unka ek sher dikhiye

aataa hai mere qatl ko par josh-e rashk se
martaa huu;N us ke haath me;N talvaar dekh kar

Meri auqaat nahi ki Ghalib Ke sher par kuch kahu islie is sher ki baabat
Janab nazm Tabataba'i ke khyaal zaahir kare raha hu Koi agar mere qatl ko haath me talwaar lekar Aa raha hai to mujhe uske haath me talwaar dekhkar kyun rashk hogaa...dono misro'n me rabt nahi hai.....nazm saahib Urdu shaairi Ke bahut bade adiib the..unki kisi baat ko halke me nahi liya jana chaahiye lekin baad me bahut se aadiibo me is masle par unki purzor khilaafat ki thii...khud mujhe lagtaa hai dono misro me ek saaf rabt hai isliye Maine kahaa thaa ki DO-LAHT ko pakadnaa aasan nahi hai.....ek tarah se main zidd sahib ki baat ko support kar raha hu aur unki is baat Ki mukhaalfat bhi kar raha hu ki kuch bhi black & white nahi hai......as I said ki aib-e-Do lakht pakadnaa aasan nahi hai .....lekin na-mumkin bhi nahi hai.....
   
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17th June 2014, 06:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
Is section ke mods ko inform kar diya hai maine...
thank you very much, Zainyji



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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17th June 2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufaq View Post
Sabse pahale to aadil sahib aapko aapki koshish Ke liye daad.....pahale socha ki aapne jawaab De hi diya hai.......chhodo kyaa comment karna.....phir janaab newton Ka kuch kahaa yaad Aa gaya.......our greatest weakness is giving up to apni haqeer raay zaahir lagne Aa gayaa hu....Jo aage tafseel se darj hai

DO-LAKHT Ka maani hai.......do tukhde.....yaani jab sher Ke do misre alag-2 baat kahe to use DO-LAKHT kahate hai ....Jo ki bahut bada aib hai....

Missal Ke liye ek chhota sa qissa suniye.......

Ek baar janaab haidar Ali aatish Ke paas unke ek shaagird apna ye sher lekar aaye

Fasl-e gul me'n mujhe kahtaa hai kih gulshan se nikal
aisii be-par kii udhaataa thaa na saiyaad kabhii

Is sher par aatish sahib ki islaah dekhiye.....

Par katar kar mujhe kahtaa hai kih gulshan se nikal
aisii be-par kii udhaataa thaa nah saiyaad kabhii

Kahane ki koi zaroorat nahi ki pahle sher me DO LAKHT tha Jo aatish saahib ne door kar diya.....lekin do-lakht ko pakadna itna aasan nahi hai aur main apni baat phir duharaata hu.....do lakht ko pakadnaa aasan nahi hai

Ghaalib jaise shaair bhi is aib se Bach nahi paaye....unka ek sher dikhiye

aataa hai mere qatl ko par josh-e rashk se
martaa huu;N us ke haath me;N talvaar dekh kar

Meri auqaat nahi ki Ghalib Ke sher par kuch kahu islie is sher ki baabat
Janab nazm Tabataba'i ke khyaal zaahir kare raha hu Koi agar mere qatl ko haath me talwaar lekar Aa raha hai to mujhe uske haath me talwaar dekhkar kyun rashk hogaa...dono misro'n me rabt nahi hai.....nazm saahib Urdu shaairi Ke bahut bade adiib the..unki kisi baat ko halke me nahi liya jana chaahiye lekin baad me bahut se aadiibo me is masle par unki purzor khilaafat ki thii...khud mujhe lagtaa hai dono misro me ek saaf rabt hai isliye Maine kahaa thaa ki DO-LAHT ko pakadnaa aasan nahi hai.....ek tarah se main zidd sahib ki baat ko support kar raha hu aur unki is baat Ki mukhaalfat bhi kar raha hu ki kuch bhi black & white nahi hai......as I said ki aib-e-Do lakht pakadnaa aasan nahi hai .....lekin na-mumkin bhi nahi hai.....
Ufaq saab,

aapne aur Zidd saab ne bahot hi khubsurti se yeh point ko explain kiya hai.
aap dono ka bahot bahot shukriya . kaafi points clear hone lage haiN



ख़ुदा परेशां तेरी बला से तेरे सितम से तेरे अधम से
अगर हसीँ होते ज़ुल्म तेरे तू भी तो कुछ शर्मसार होता



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3] sher bharti ke lafzo se aazaad ho.
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3] sher bharti ke lafzo se aazaad ho. - 17th June 2014, 06:15 PM

aksar lafz baratne me aise lafzo ka sahara lena padta hai jiksi actually koi zarurat nahi..dusre shabdo me kahu to agar kuch lafz misre se hata diye jaayen aur us misre ke meaning me koi farq nahi pade, meaning suffer na kare, balki aur sharp ho jaaye to aise lafzo ko 'bharti lafz' yani ' filler words ' kahte hai.

ye kahne ki zarurat nahi ki aisa wahi shayar karta hai jo beherband misre likhna chahta hai...jisko beherbandi nahi karna hai unke liye ye discussion sirf academic hai.

ek theme ko decide karna , phir us theme ko beautifully lafzo me utarna , ek meter me , is exercise ko lafz baratna kahte hai.

aksar shayar ko bahut frustrate karta hai ye exercise. theme milti hai to lafz nahi milte ,dono milte hai to properly beher me arrange nahi ho rahe hai..jo arrange hota hai vo baat shayar kahna chahta nahi, jo arrange hota hai usse shayar mutmain nahi...phir shayar koshish karta hai...jab thak jaata hai to ek- ak filler lafz istemaal kar leta hai

kabhi meter badalna, kabhi lafz badalna, kabhi theme modify kar ke tasalli kar lena - ye sab shayar ke professional hazards hai.

shayad isliye hi munawwar rana ne kaha hoga

'humne lafz barat ne me lahu thook diya
aap to sirf ye dekhnege ki ghazal kaisi thi.'

jab sab kuch mil jata hai aur bus ek chota lafz addtion karna hai meter me fit karne keliye to shayar kabhi kabhi koi bharti ka lafz jaise 'hi' istemaal kar leta hai
aur sher defective ho jata hai

for example.

raha chand mujhse khafa khafa, na hi taare hi rahe rahnumaa
mere askh me base jugnuoo, se ye raat meri chamak gayi

ab yaha shayar ne frustrate hokar 'hi' ghused diya , jabhi agar ;hi; na ho to bhi us misre ki meaning zara bhi suffer na kare. balki jo first 'hi' hai usne misre ko kamzor bana diya.

i hope i was satisfactory in the explanation.
   
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4]sher ke lafz , usme darj jazbaat se zyada na bole ya chillayen.
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4]sher ke lafz , usme darj jazbaat se zyada na bole ya chillayen. - 17th June 2014, 08:54 PM

4]sher ke lafz , usme darj jazbaat se zyada na bole ya chillayen.

actually ye prosodical defect nahi hai , its a defect of rhetoric.

aur maine ye topic mere 'newcomers thread' par bhi tag kiya hai.

so mai ab soch raha hu ki vo article hi likh kar us thread par psot kar du.

just give me some time..its a very big topic. uski bulleting karna thee nahi.


-------------------------------------

mujhe lagta hai ki sahi sher kya hai uski outline to kam az kam aaa hi gayi hai. lekin ye prosodical view se hai...ab sawaal ye bana ki accha sher kya hai?...jo original sawaal hai.

-------------------------------------

mere khayaaal se is sawaal ka justified jawaab dena bahut hi mushkil hai...yu kaha jaaye ke actually impossible hai.....but indirect jawaab aa sakta hai.

jaise agar sawaal ko palta jaaye...

ki ek defective shar kya hai?...baaat wahi hai actually, but this question is easier to answer.

---------------------------------------

agar zainyji agree karen meri is baat se to discussion aur debate ka scope banauu mai...
   
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17th June 2014, 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd
ek theme ko decide karna , phir us theme ko beautifully lafzo me utarna , ek meter me , is exercise ko lafz baratna kahte hai.

aksar shayar ko bahut frustrate karta hai ye exercise. theme milti hai to lafz nahi milte ,dono milte hai to properly beher me arrange nahi ho rahe hai..jo arrange hota hai vo baat shayar kahna chahta nahi, jo arrange hota hai usse shayar mutmain nahi...phir shayar koshish karta hai...jab thak jaata hai to ek- ak filler lafz istemaal kar leta hai
bhaisaab... aapke is paragraph ko padhaa tto jaan me jaan aayee, yoon lagaa ke ye koi common problem hai.... warna ab tak to mmujhe yahi lag rahaa tha ke meri vocabulary kamzor hai ya fir mujhse hi aisaa hua krtaa hai.... magar aapka ye last comment padh kar bahot itminaan huaa.... magar ye to hota hi hai jab bhi likhne baitho in bhartii ke lafzzon ke saath behad mashaqqat karnii hotii hai...

thanks for sharing the knowledge bro... really its veryy helpful for the beginners like us...

tc


Shaad...
   
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17th June 2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zidd View Post
aksar lafz baratne me aise lafzo ka sahara lena padta hai jiksi actually koi zarurat nahi..dusre shabdo me kahu to agar kuch lafz misre se hata diye jaayen aur us misre ke meaning me koi farq nahi pade, meaning suffer na kare, balki aur sharp ho jaaye to aise lafzo ko 'bharti lafz' yani ' filler words ' kahte hai.

ye kahne ki zarurat nahi ki aisa wahi shayar karta hai jo beherband misre likhna chahta hai...jisko beherbandi nahi karna hai unke liye ye discussion sirf academic hai.

ek theme ko decide karna , phir us theme ko beautifully lafzo me utarna , ek meter me , is exercise ko lafz baratna kahte hai.

aksar shayar ko bahut frustrate karta hai ye exercise. theme milti hai to lafz nahi milte ,dono milte hai to properly beher me arrange nahi ho rahe hai..jo arrange hota hai vo baat shayar kahna chahta nahi, jo arrange hota hai usse shayar mutmain nahi...phir shayar koshish karta hai...jab thak jaata hai to ek- ak filler lafz istemaal kar leta hai

kabhi meter badalna, kabhi lafz badalna, kabhi theme modify kar ke tasalli kar lena - ye sab shayar ke professional hazards hai.

shayad isliye hi munawwar rana ne kaha hoga

'humne lafz barat ne me lahu thook diya
aap to sirf ye dekhnege ki ghazal kaisi thi.'

jab sab kuch mil jata hai aur bus ek chota lafz addtion karna hai meter me fit karne keliye to shayar kabhi kabhi koi bharti ka lafz jaise 'hi' istemaal kar leta hai
aur sher defective ho jata hai

for example.

raha chand mujhse khafa khafa, na hi taare hi rahe rahnumaa
mere askh me base jugnuoo, se ye raat meri chamak gayi

ab yaha shayar ne frustrate hokar 'hi' ghused diya , jabhi agar ;hi; na ho to bhi us misre ki meaning zara bhi suffer na kare. balki jo first 'hi' hai usne misre ko kamzor bana diya.

i hope i was satisfactory in the explanation.
mere khayaal se jo log behr seekh rahe hain ya nausikhye hain majbooran aysa karte hain...like me......

ghair zaruri words add karke bas behr theek karna hota hai..

Mere khayaal se her sher me se ghair zaruri words ko hatana hi first homework hona chahiye....SAHI sher likhne ke liye..




Zainy


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17th June 2014, 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
mere khayaal se jo log behr seekh rahe hain ya nausikhye hain majbooran aysa karte hain...like me......

ghair zaruri words add karke bas behr theek karna hota hai..

Mere khayaal se her sher me se ghair zaruri words ko hatana hi first homework hona chahiye....SAHI sher likhne ke liye..
hahahahaha..... aur un nausikhiyon me maine apna naam already darj karaa liyaa hai upar ke comment mein.......


Shaad...
   
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17th June 2014, 09:06 PM

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4]

agar zainyji agree karen meri is baat se to discussion aur debate ka scope banauu mai...

As you please. ..humko to bas seekhne se matlab hai...




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17th June 2014, 09:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zainy View Post
mere khayaal se jo log behr seekh rahe hain ya nausikhye hain majbooran aysa karte hain...like me......

ghair zaruri words add karke bas behr theek karna hota hai..

Mere khayaal se her sher me se ghair zaruri words ko hatana hi first homework hona chahiye....SAHI sher likhne ke liye..
to shaad bhai and zainyji,

iska ek hi tod hai...the writer should be a master of the meter he is using.

phir ye mushkil aasaan ho jati hai.

kyui agar aap kuch kahe jis meter me aapki adequate practice and mastery hai to ye problem nahi hai...ears apne aap reject kar dete hai jo lafz ya word group rhythm ko confirm nahi karte.

isliye best way is to sing out while making sher initially, after some time one will not need to sing for meters in which one has practice.
tahkti used last just to confirm

is tarah se bharti ke lafz nahi ayenge.
   
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17th June 2014, 09:14 PM

ufaqji se meri e darkhwast hai ki us aib
Aib e do lakht

is baare me thoda sa hame jaan kaari den.
kyuki meri ilm ki tishnagi bhuji nahi is topic par, specially jab mai bilkul alag nazariya rakhta hu.

its a request...lets have a healthy debate on this aib(defect)...maybe if you wish you can make a new thread.

regards
   
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17th June 2014, 09:16 PM

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to shaad bhai and zainyji,

iska ek hi tod hai...the writer should be a master of the meter he is using.

phir ye mushkil aasaan ho jati hai.

kyui agar aap kuch kahe jis meter me aapki adequate practice and mastery hai to ye problem nahi hai...ears apne aap reject kar dete hai jo lafz ya word group rhythm ko confirm nahi karte.

isliye best way is to sing out while making sher initially, after some time one will not need to sing for meters in which one has practice.
tahkti used last just to confirm

is tarah se bharti ke lafz nahi ayenge.
Omg Zidd sahab singing waala idea dekar pitwaane ka pura intezaam kar diya hai aapne.. ..lolzz..

per chalo yeb bhi koshish kar lete hain.....




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17th June 2014, 09:18 PM

isi mudde se related ek chota sa sawaal arz karnaa chahunga gar ijaazat ho to......

ek ghazal, ya sher likhne ke liye pahle kyaa taiyaar karna chahiye... kaafiyaa, radeef, behar, ya khayaal....

main aksar isi sawaal me ulajh jaaya kartaa hoon, agar aap isme kuch roshnii daal sakenge to mujh ko behad tasalli mil jaaegii... aur aage se thodii mushkil aasaan ho jaay akaregii...

main aksar hii ruk jaata hoon pen haanth lagaane se pahle,
kis soch me hun , kya behr chunooN , aur kyaa khaakaa taiyaar karooN.....


Shaad...
   
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zidd
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17th June 2014, 09:35 PM

generally yu hota hai ki koi accha idea aa jata hai mostly achanak.
phir us par ek sher ban jata hai.

ab aap us radeef qafiye se bandh gaye.

phir ye sochna hai ki ye radeef -qafiya kis beher me khapega.

phir ghazal banane baithe..bani to bani varna fard sahi ...kisi dusri ghazal ke upar latkaane ke aam ayegi.

uske baad radeef qawaif khud idea dene lagte hai...suggest karte hai ki unka kya kiya jaaye..

generally ghazal me yehi hota hai...kyui sab sher independent hai...

haa, nazm me aisa nahi....mujhe lagta hai nazm likhne wale ziyada mehnat karte hai...magar nazm sunnewale aksar bore ho jaate hai....

mere khayaal se ghazal isliye bhi like ki jati hai ki kam attention span chaiye sunnewale ko...lihne wale ko bhi aaraam...2 line likhi ...kaam khatm.

all said and done the history of nazm is only 100 years old and that too coz of printing technology..ki log usko pad sakte hai ab...varna kaun jhanjhat mole? ....ghazal sunne ki cheez hai nazm likhne ki.

oh magar ye mai kaha se kaha pahuch gaya..
lamba lecture du iske pahle full stop laga deta hu
   
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sameer'shaad'
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17th June 2014, 09:53 PM

waahhhh saahab kyaaa kahne,, aap bolte hain to lagtaa hai phool jhaDte hain, yoon lagta hai ke bas sunte chale jaaen.... gyaan ka saagar hain aap, ilm ke samunder hain.... ham behad khushnaseeb hain ke aap yahaan is bazm me hamaare saath hain... bahot si baaten aap se pooch kar dil halka ho jaata hai... aage bhi pareshaan karta rahunga.... apna khyaall rakhiyega

Shaad....


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